Latest Purchase...Non-percussion

cbphoto

Gold Member
(1) 250' roll 12/2 AWG
(1) 100' roll 10/2 AWG
This is the stuff that makes me walk away. I can't get my head around running this kind of cable anywhere. It would end up wrapped around my ankles before my second cup of coffee.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The cold blast back in February laughed at our heaters and called me a bitch. Sub-zero temperatures is not something that happens here often. Below freezing, sometimes. Below zero, almost never.

Lesson learned:
View attachment 108672
This is:
(3) 72" baseboard heaters
(3) 48" baseboard heaters
(1) 30" baseboard heater
(4) double pole thermostats
(1) 250' roll 12/2 AWG
(1) 100' roll 10/2 AWG
(1) 30 amp double pole breaker

All I have left to buy is (3) 20 amp double pole breakers.

This will give me 27,310 BTUs of heat. Up yours old man winter.
Do you have 6 open spaces in your panel?

Also, what's the 30 amp breaker and the 10 wire for, another project?

Those heaters have to be protected at no more than 20 amps
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
This is the stuff that makes me walk away. I can't get my head around running this kind of cable anywhere. It would end up wrapped around my ankles before my second cup of coffee.
The only part that scares me is going into the crawl space. I have convinced myself that some sort of subterranean demon monster lives under there, and his favorite snack is middle aged white boys. He has a cousin that lives in the lake.

When we moved in, half the living room didnt work. The dryer was wired up as a stove and on a 50 amp circuit. Multiple outlets were dead.

So far I have:
Rewired dryer circuit and installed correct plug and breaker
Rewired laundry room
Rewired living room
Rewired kids room
Rewired kids bathroom and installed GFCI
Replaced multiple outlets in kitchen and installed GFCI
Replaced GFCI in master bathroom
Replaced ceiling fixtures in kitchen
Rebuilt ceiling fan in master bedroom
Installed 100 amp subpanel

There is still about half the house left to wire, but it's not necessary like the other rooms were.

I do plumbing, roofing, and general carpentry as well. I'm almost 6 years into a 10 year project and havent had to pay anyone a dime so far.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
This is the stuff that makes me walk away. I can't get my head around running this kind of cable anywhere. It would end up wrapped around my ankles before my second cup of coffee.
The trick is to pull it off a rotating reel. Short of that, the wire HAS to be walked out like it's coming off a reel (from the outside of the coil not the inside!) Never never pull from the inside. The goal is flat wire, no twists. Twists = hell on earth if you want to do a pro looking job. It's all about the look. Twisted wire works, but looks childish lol
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The only part that scares me is going into the crawl space. I have convinced myself that some sort of subterranean demon monster lives under there, and his favorite snack is middle aged white boys. He has a cousin that lives in the lake.
The monster isn't that bad.

He's just looking for acceptance. Talk to him.

Everyone is scared of him.

He's all bark and no bite.

The spiders down there could be ferocious
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Do you have 6 open spaces in your panel?

Also, what's the 30 amp breaker and the 10 wire for, another project?

Those heaters have to be protected at no more than 20 amps
I have 15 spaces available currently.

According to Cadet's website, if I exceed 3,840 watts I can run a 30 amp circuit up to 5,760 watts. My kitchen and living room are open area so the plan was to run them as (1) 30 amp circuit since the 3 heaters together draw 4000 watts.

Everything I bought is Cadet, so I'm assuming they are correct in power requirements.

Here is the page and the chart I got the info from:


By all means if this is wrong feel free to yell at me.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
The monster isn't that bad.

He's just looking for acceptance. Talk to him.

Everyone is scared of him.

He's all bark and no bite.

The spiders down there could be ferocious
I'm going to try to clean up the crawlspace and make it not so scary. I really do freak myself out when I'm down there.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
V x A = W
Easy math to determine required breaker size. Also, check the main in the panel to see what the total Amp service is for the panel.
I'm sure you're aware, but just in case ya weren't.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I have 15 spaces available currently.

According to Cadet's website, if I exceed 3,840 watts I can run a 30 amp circuit up to 5,760 watts. My kitchen and living room are open area so the plan was to run them as (1) 30 amp circuit since the 3 heaters together draw 4000 watts.

Everything I bought is Cadet, so I'm assuming they are correct in power requirements.

Here is the page and the chart I got the info from:


By all means if this is wrong feel free to yell at me.
If the heaters themselves are rated at only 20 amps max you are not allowed to connect the wiring to a 30 amp circuit. If the heaters are rated for 30 amps then you're good. It's the heater max amperage rating that concerns me. I've never saw internal wiring in a heater that uses 10 gauge. Any wire thinner than 10 gauge isn't rated for 30 amps. I run a max of 16 feet of baseboard heat on a 20 amp 240 volt circuit, which is 2000 watts per double pole breaker.

The NEC does recognize the 30 amp circuit for baseboard heat. Me, I never encountered it. You need to read and follow the ratings on the heater itself to make the final decision. Plus working with 10 solid wire is A. Pain. In. The. Ass.

I'd do it in 12 wire at 20 amps for safety and ease of wiring. Even connected to a 30 amp circuit, the heater will draw the same wattage as it takes on a 20 amp circuit. It's when things go south electrically that the higher amperage breaker can melt insulation on thinner wire like 12 which is what they use inside the heater. Gotta plan for worst case scenario, they do happen.

You have to check the ratings of the thermostats as well. If one component (thermostat or heater) is max rated at 20 amps, that's your limit as to what amperage circuit to connect to.
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
If the heaters themselves are rated at only 20 amps max you are not allowed to connect the wiring to a 30 amp circuit. If the heaters are rated for 30 amps then you're good. It's the heater max amperage rating that concerns me. I've never saw internal wiring in a heater that uses 10 gauge. Any wire thinner than 10 gauge isn't rated for 30 amps. I run a max of 16 feet of baseboard heat on a 20 amp 240 volt circuit, which is 2000 watts per double pole breaker.

The NEC does recognize the 30 amp circuit for baseboard heat. Me, I never encountered it. You need to read and follow the ratings on the heater itself to make the final decision. Plus working with 10 solid wire is A. Pain. In. The. Ass.

I'd do it in 12 wire at 20 amps for safety and ease of wiring. Even connected to a 30 amp circuit, the heater will draw the same wattage as it takes on a 20 amp circuit. It's when things go south electrically that the higher amperage breaker can melt insulation on thinner wire like 12 which is what they use inside the heater. Gotta plan for worst case scenario, they do happen.

You have to check the ratings of the thermostats as well. If one component (thermostat or heater) is max rated at 20 amps, that's your limit as to what amperage circuit to connect to.
Okay, the thermostat says 22.0 amps. Its wiring is 12 gauge.

The heaters show 2.1, 4.2, and 6.3 amps depending on size of heater. Their wiring is 14 gauge. I cannot find a max amps rating.

In order run multiple heaters off 1 thermostat, I must wire it in parallel. Does this compound the power draw (1+1+1=3), or distribute it evenly (1×1×1=1)?

I could easily split the kitchen/living room into 2 circuits if needed, just need another thermostat. I would like to keep them as 1 circuit.

The instruction manual states "The maximum amperage load you can put on 1 circuit breaker is limited to either 80% of the circuit breaker capacity, or the maximum amperage rating of the thermostat, whichever is lower."

My kitchen/LR heaters would be 6.3+6.3+4.2 for a total of 16.8 amps. Is this correct as the total draw? If so, 16.8 is less than 20, but more than 80%. Or is the most its pulling is 6.3 amps because its parallel?

Here is where I got wattage, it's on the box with a sq ft equivalent. Is this output and not relevant to power draw?

20210923_130302.jpg
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
Okay, the thermostat says 22.0 amps. Its wiring is 12 gauge.

The heaters show 2.1, 4.2, and 6.3 amps depending on size of heater. Their wiring is 14 gauge. I cannot find a max amps rating.

In order run multiple heaters off 1 thermostat, I must wire it in parallel. Does this compound the power draw (1+1+1=3), or distribute it evenly (1×1×1=1)?

I could easily split the kitchen/living room into 2 circuits if needed, just need another thermostat. I would like to keep them as 1 circuit.

The instruction manual states "The maximum amperage load you can put on 1 circuit breaker is limited to either 80% of the circuit breaker capacity, or the maximum amperage rating of the thermostat, whichever is lower."

My kitchen/LR heaters would be 6.3+6.3+4.2 for a total of 16.8 amps. Is this correct as the total draw? If so, 16.8 is less than 20, but more than 80%. Or is the most its pulling is 6.3 amps because its parallel?

Here is where I got wattage, it's on the box with a sq ft equivalent. Is this output and not relevant to power draw?

View attachment 108730
Yes, the rabbit hole is deep.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Yes, the rabbit hole is deep.
Sure is! Sad part, this makes more sense to me than the electrical stuff you just did. To me, that looks like colorful spaghetti.

@larryace, the 30", 500 watt heater will be alone in a bathroom. If they have their own thermostats, could I have the kitchen heater and the bathroom heater be on the same circuit? If so, I'll just do that as it keeps everything at 20 amps, and I can return the #10 expensive ass wire.
 

someguy01

Well-known member
Is this output and not relevant to power draw?
No, it is power draw. Output should be listed as BTUs.
That bottom heater (4000W) pulls 33.4A. I would assume that wattage rating as well as your mentioned amp rating would be the max draw at full output.
Does this compound the power draw (1+1+1=3)
this is correct.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
@larryace, the 30", 500 watt heater will be alone in a bathroom. If they have their own thermostats, could I have the kitchen heater and the bathroom heater be on the same circuit? If so, I'll just do that as it keeps everything at 20 amps, and I can return the #10 expensive ass wire.
Uncle Larry I drew a circuit map of what I'm thinking here. I think it will work. What say you?
20210923_150611.jpg
I had to make the white wire yellow, no white sharpie. I did label it as hot though since it's a 240 circuit. My green looks too close to black after taking the picture. Sorry about that.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Sure is! Sad part, this makes more sense to me than the electrical stuff you just did. To me, that looks like colorful spaghetti.

@larryace, the 30", 500 watt heater will be alone in a bathroom. If they have their own thermostats, could I have the kitchen heater and the bathroom heater be on the same circuit? If so, I'll just do that as it keeps everything at 20 amps, and I can return the #10 expensive ass wire.
Any combination of heaters up to 16 feet can be run on 1 - 240 volt 20 amp circuit. So yes, kitchen and bathroom heaters can be run simultaneously on a 240 volt 20 amp circuit as long as the total length of heaters doesn't exceed 16 foot total.
Uncle Larry I drew a circuit map of what I'm thinking here. I think it will work. What say you?
View attachment 108738
I had to make the white wire yellow, no white sharpie. I did label it as hot though since it's a 240 circuit. My green looks too close to black after taking the picture. Sorry about that.


I use baseboard heat too. It's quiet, clean, and I can pick which rooms to heat or not. Plus running out of heating oil is no fun at all. Heating my home with electric is much less expensive than when I had oil.

This diagram looks right as long as you get the connections right in the Thermostat (and everywhere else as well) You'll need 240 volt (2 pole) thermostats. I'm assuming you're running 2 heaters off one thermostat. I'm not clear on that. If your intention is to wire the kitchen and bathroom on the same stat... I would never wire those 2 rooms on the same thermostat. The bathroom *might* get too hot. Id put an onboard or wall thermostat in the bathroom at least and wire the kitchen and another bigger general area room on the same stat if you want more centralized control. I have onboard stats on every heater in my house. The only downside to that is no central thermostat. I could wire it that way, but I like the individual controls.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Any combination of heaters up to 16 feet can be run on 1 - 240 volt 20 amp circuit. So yes, kitchen and bathroom heaters can be run simultaneously on a 240 volt 20 amp circuit as long as the total length of heaters doesn't exceed 16 foot total.



I use baseboard heat too. It's quiet, clean, and I can pick which rooms to heat or not. Plus running out of heating oil is no fun at all. Heating my home with electric is much less expensive than when I had oil.

This diagram looks right as long as you get the connections right in the Thermostat (and everywhere else as well) You'll need 240 volt (2 pole) thermostats. I'm assuming you're running 2 heaters off one thermostat. I'm not clear on that. If your intention is to wire the kitchen and bathroom on the same stat... I would never wire those 2 rooms on the same thermostat. The bathroom *might* get too hot. Id put an onboard or wall thermostat in the bathroom at least and wire the kitchen and another bigger general area room on the same stat if you want more centralized control. I have onboard stats on every heater in my house. The only downside to that is no central thermostat. I could wire it that way, but I like the individual controls.
Awesome!

Okay, so I can have 5 zones on 4 circuits:

Circuit 1: Kitchen and bath. Each have their own thermostats
Circuit 2: Living room. It has it's own thermostat.
Circuit 3: Kids room. It has it's own thermostat
Circuit 4: Master bed and bath. 1 thermostat for both, it's open space more or less.

That will make life easier, and I can return the #10 wire. It also keeps everything at 20 amps. Yay!
 

someguy01

Well-known member
My math was wrong, I missed that the heaters were 240V.
 
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