Just an old man's crowd-funding rant

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Disclaimer: I'm not against all crowdfunding (e.g. Kickstarter, GoFundMe, etc.). I think that if someone wants to raise money due to medical procedures, falling on hard times due to circumstances out of one's control, help paying college tuition, etc., I think those things are fine. If you need actual help, then by all means, then start one of these things...

BUT...

[rant]I think that some of these music-based Kickstarter campaigns are getting out of hand, and they are starting to become a pet peeve of mine.

I just had some people that I know raise almost $10,000 via Kickstarter to start a personal music studio. There's also a guy that I used to play music with who's burned through every other musician within a 100-mile radius raise $2000 towards his next musical project. I'm like, WTH??? Keep in mind that both of these groups aren't that great musically, and really haven't done much over the years.

Back when I was doing the band thing, there were three ways to pay for things: save our money, go into debt, or barter. Luckily, I can say that I have never gone into debt for a studio project or to buy equipment. We played our tails off every weekend in order to pay for studio time or buy equipment. (None of our parents ever gave us a dime. Heck, they would rarely even come to any shows, ever.) We would often barter for studio time. The guy that owned the studio also owned a club, so if we played for nothing, we got free studio time. We worked hard, got crappy jobs, emptied savings accounts, sold valuables, etc. in order to pay for stuff. If we couldn't pay for it in cash, we would (A.) not buy it and (B.) go play more shows until we would could. We started out with selling demos and worked our way up from there. However, it was worth it all. We had a huge passion for what we were doing. We believed in ourselves, and we gave it our absolute best all of the time.

IMO, if you don't believe enough in your project/tour enough to save for it and pay for it yourself, then why should I? If you (the band/artist) want me to contribute, either put out a good product that I will want to buy and/or put on a great live show that I will want to pay for a ticket to go see. If you are worth your salt, I'll probably buy multiple copies of your music to give to friends and I'll probably buy multiple concert tickets in order to come see you.

Until then, go play some more shows, practice, pay your dues, and get another job. Also, go practice.

Another thing to keep in mind is that I'm from the Southern USA. I don't know about other parts of the country, but we tend to be proud and hate asking for handouts and look down upon those that do. You want something? You want a studio? You want a new recording project? You want new equipment? Well then, go out and bust your a$$ working, playing shows, and selling merch, and save your d@mn money. If you are able-bodied, get out and earn it. You'll appreciate it more, and you'll learn not to take crap from anyone who tries to take what you've earned because you won't owe anyone anything. There's a lot of pride in that. [/rant]

I know, I know. People can do whatever they want to with their money, and I'm not in contol of what others do. If it bothers me, just don't contribute (which I won't). I also know that I should lighten up, and you're probably right. This has just been on my mind lately.

Thanks for reading.
 
Last edited:

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
This will make me sound like an old man, even though Im 35 years old, but its this new generation's mentality. I see it with interns who come through my office. They have no work ethic, they have no initiative. They think everything should be given to them because thats the life they have lived since the day they were born.

You can blame the internet for most of this. They get free music, free videos, free gaming, free software, free information, etc all from the comfort of their lounge chair. They never had to go out and do something to get something in return. They just have everything right at their fingertips. Growing up getting everything for free leads you to believe everything is this easy. So now when they want something, they turn to the masses and just ask for it. Someone will be dumb enough to get it for them for free.
 

SquadLeader

Gold Member
It's the self-entitled world some musicians (especially young ones) live in sadly.

I see it all the time on the myriad threads on Facebook about how much a band should be paid (ooo we've bought instruments worth... oooo we spent £... on lessons.....oooo we spend....on fuel to travel to the gig.....you should be paying us a small fortune....would a plumber work for free....blah blah.....blah)

It pisses me off no end.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
The crowd-funding doesn't bother me. If the project isn't good or doesn't interest me, I won't pledge it. If people can get money for their project, then good for them. It's as simple as that to me.

It's always been a tough racket being a musician, and it's harder today to make a living at it than it was 20 years ago. I don't get down on musicians for doing what they feel they need to do to make it. I don't blame the internet; the internet is here to stay and I wouldn't give it back for anything. The music business is in bad shape, but whatever the fix is, it's going to have to include the internet.

I keep hearing the young generation wants everything for free, but who is pledging the money to these campaigns to support the younger bands? I think that stuff makes us sound old because we are old. Our parents said it about us.

I have supported crowd-funding for a couple of artists I really admire, and I got some cool stuff in return. I pledged a Steve Gadd project a few years ago and that got me a Skype call with the man. I would have killed for opportunities like that when I was starting out.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Most of the crowd-funding products I have seen offer something for your $$ or trouble. Give us 50 bucks and if we make enough and get a CD you will get one signed, etc. What are these bands offering ? Free admission to a show at a bar.? Just don't get it.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
While part of me agrees with you guys, another part of me is glad it's here. It's a new world with things that weren't around until recently. Nobody is twisting any arms. People are more generous that I gave them credit for. Myself I would probably never go there unless I was absolutely forced to.

And not all of the young generation are lazy handout takers. My son is 23 and has a great work ethic. I'm so proud of him. If people want to give away their money to support someone's project, that's people helping people and in my mind, that's a good thing. Better than making bankers more rich by taking loans. We can't blame kids because they have things and opportunities we didn't. If I was raised under the exact same circumstances, I'd act just like them too. Not the kids fault. It's just the way society is progressing. I have no problem with it. It's nice to know if my back is against the wall financially, there is another option available to me. Generosity hopefully begets itself.

I have faith in people. My dad thought I was a screwup too but us screwups grow up and become responsible adults eventually. It took me 35 years to become a responsible adult. It takes a while to grow up. Fund on.
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
On the street corner or on the internet, I don't give away money (to people who ask for it).

I'm the old school, "get a job", kind of guy.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
On the street corner or on the internet, I don't give away money (to people who ask for it).

I'm the old school, "get a job", kind of guy.
Yep, same here. If you dont have to work hard for something you dont really appreciate it.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
On the street corner or on the internet, I don't give away money (to people who ask for it).
And same here.

I'm not inherently against the Kickstarter concept. I've helped fund a few things where there was a clear, worthwhile, and well-strategized goal. The Wrecking Crew film was one of those, although I was encouraged by having prior knowledge of the project, and meeting Denny Tedesco well before he sought contributions.

But I would never, and I repeat NEVER give money to someone just so they could pursue a personal dream, or buy new gear, etc. They need to work for that stuff, not beg for it. Instead of Go Fund Me, it should Go Fund Yourself! I don't feel that anyone is entitled to anything. You work, and then you get respect and consideration.

Medical needs are different, although nobody is held hostage for a lump sum payment. Hospitals & health insurance will arrange terms, just like buying a car. Also there's been fraud in several cases money-raising cases, and I won't risk my money going to beggars/thieves.

Bermuda
 

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
I agree. I bought all my gear from working. I had drums and cymbals before I bought my first car!
Now if I could get someone to fund my sailboat purchase, that'd be okay.
 

tcspears

Gold Member
I think you're missing the point of crowdfunding, it's just a website that allows you to do what artists and musicians have been doing for centuries: raising money and finding investors.

Most artists and bands need money in order support doing their art, with the ultimate goal being that their art supports them. (I know that some are just doing it for a hobby).

Painters, sculptors, and musicians for centuries have had to raise money by:
- Selling tickets to shows
- Selling merchandise
- Finding investors
- Finding benefactors
- Selling commodity art/music for profit (cover songs, portraits)

All crowdfunding is doing is putting a website to do what people are already doing. If a band wants to make an album, they'll often raise money by gigging, contributing their own money, asking families/friends for money, selling tickets to shows that directly benefit the CD, work with investors, or fundraise with fans.

There are some stupid crowdfunding. A piano player I know started one to buy a fancy controller for his X-Box, and people funded it. Most of it is musicians, artists, bands, and other small businesses looking to raise capital.

It may be that you've never been exposed to this before, but it certainly isn't something new. Mozart and Beethoven would raise money for compositions by visiting wealthy patrons, showing/playing the finished parts of the music, and give a sales pitch. Patrons who felt inclined, would donate money to support the composition, and in turn their name would be displayed somewhere in the composition book.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
I think you're missing the point of crowdfunding, it's just a website that allows you to do what artists and musicians have been doing for centuries: raising money and finding investors.

Most artists and bands need money in order support doing their art, with the ultimate goal being that their art supports them. (I know that some are just doing it for a hobby).

Painters, sculptors, and musicians for centuries have had to raise money by:
- Selling tickets to shows
- Selling merchandise
- Finding investors
- Finding benefactors
- Selling commodity art/music for profit (cover songs, portraits)

All crowdfunding is doing is putting a website to do what people are already doing. If a band wants to make an album, they'll often raise money by gigging, contributing their own money, asking families/friends for money, selling tickets to shows that directly benefit the CD, work with investors, or fundraise with fans.

There are some stupid crowdfunding. A piano player I know started one to buy a fancy controller for his X-Box, and people funded it. Most of it is musicians, artists, bands, and other small businesses looking to raise capital.

It may be that you've never been exposed to this before, but it certainly isn't something new. Mozart and Beethoven would raise money for compositions by visiting wealthy patrons, showing/playing the finished parts of the music, and give a sales pitch. Patrons who felt inclined, would donate money to support the composition, and in turn their name would be displayed somewhere in the composition book.
Yeah. I don't quite get the reaction by many here. Maybe I'm missing something. The crowd-funding campaigns I see, you get something in return for your donation. How is this new? If I pledge money, I get a CD and a t-shirt; maybe an autographed cymbal or Skype lesson. Has anyone ever seen a PBS fundraiser or bought a bag of pistachios to fund a school trip? What's the difference here? Support it if you feel like you're getting something of value in return, don't if you don't. Basic free-market economics.

I like this place because I read it and suddenly don't feel so old next you dinosaur motherf*****s.

Of course, I could be wrong. I'm just a drummer.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
I think you're missing the point of crowdfunding, it's just a website that allows you to do what artists and musicians have been doing for centuries: raising money and finding investors.

Most artists and bands need money in order support doing their art, with the ultimate goal being that their art supports them. (I know that some are just doing it for a hobby).

Painters, sculptors, and musicians for centuries have had to raise money by:
- Selling tickets to shows
- Selling merchandise
- Finding investors
- Finding benefactors
- Selling commodity art/music for profit (cover songs, portraits)

All crowdfunding is doing is putting a website to do what people are already doing. If a band wants to make an album, they'll often raise money by gigging, contributing their own money, asking families/friends for money, selling tickets to shows that directly benefit the CD, work with investors, or fundraise with fans.

There are some stupid crowdfunding. A piano player I know started one to buy a fancy controller for his X-Box, and people funded it. Most of it is musicians, artists, bands, and other small businesses looking to raise capital.

It may be that you've never been exposed to this before, but it certainly isn't something new. Mozart and Beethoven would raise money for compositions by visiting wealthy patrons, showing/playing the finished parts of the music, and give a sales pitch. Patrons who felt inclined, would donate money to support the composition, and in turn their name would be displayed somewhere in the composition book.
Not quite. Its back to front. Give me some money, then I will make an album, then I will give you a free album........What if its rubbish, or what if you just dont like it?

Put the groundwork in first. Play the pubs and the small clubs and If people like what you do you will make money and progress. Then you can use your own money to make an album and keep all the profits.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I think you're missing the point of crowdfunding, it's just a website that allows you to do what artists and musicians have been doing for centuries: raising money and finding investors
I think we all get the point of it, there's no problem with the concept of attracting investors.

The problem is when people just want a handout, and use these methods to try to gather money so that they don't have to do anything for it.

It's different if an event has put a person into a dire situation. For example, I would consider donating a kit to a working drummer who had his gear stolen or destroyed, has no savings, and must play gigs in order to eat.

Bermuda

PS - Nobody here is getting any drums from me. I'll send you a sandwich.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
It's a legal, legitimate option to get almost free money. People are going to use the service, what's to lose? More power to them. They are being upfront stating where the money will go, and kindhearted people pony up. The kind hearted people are the ones who should be recognized for their generosity. Is it the same as panhandling? Depends on your POV. No one is getting hurt. It's good karma too for the people who donate.

People who abuse the system will get cancer or something. Cause and effect.
 

jmeirhofer

Senior Member
While I have not participated in a crowd funding site as a giver or receiver, and I do not begrudge anyone their opinions, I do not understand the anger towards them.

It is kind of like anything else on the internet. If it interests you read it. If not you don't open it. So where does the anger towards these folks come from. Are you mad that you read their drivel and found them not worthy? Or are you mad that they are standing there with their proverbial hand out? Or mad at the folks that put some coin in that hand? Perhaps it is just the thought of one asking another for money? Being angry about something like this is something I can not wrap my head around.

Personally, as some have said already, those that have the means and the willing heart to contribute should be applauded. All these sites do is put those who can not afford to do what they would like together with those that would like to help them. Of the few that I have read, I have not seen the personal history of the person to find out what path in life they were on that they could not realize their dream, but without that dream, without that hope, than what is their existence for?
 
Top