Jim Chapin: Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer

Toza

Senior Member
I finally found a copy of this book and start to work on it. It looks great. Your impressions???
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
It was my first "jazz" book and at the time I loved it. But having learned of Alan Dawson's methods, I find this book to be obsolete.
 

Tutin

Pioneer Member
It such a great book, especially when you get to the last section it can be really tough at times. I'd reccommend it to anyone. Glad you're enjoying it.

T
 
C

Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan

Guest
It was my first "jazz" book and at the time I loved it. But having learned of Alan Dawson's methods, I find this book to be obsolete.
Very few people agree with you. I suggest taking the view that you missed something.....
Respectfully,
Casper
 

oops

Silver Member
I liked the book, but I found Riley's 'Art of Bop Drumming' to be more accessible, specially for beginners.

Still, it's a great book.

The straight 8ths and 16ths against the swung ride pattern threw me pretty bad.
 

Toby_Jackson

Senior Member
I tend to agree with The_Colonel and oops - Advanced Techniques blew me away when I first opened it. It was the first jazz book I studied, I had no clue what I was doing, and it kicked my ass many times. Years later when I found Art of Bop, and more recently the Dawson book, I find the practical aspects of the Chapin book handicapped.

Riley's book actually talks about, you know, the MUSIC and provides the same fundamentals in a better layout, while the Dawson book really explores the more advanced conceptual aspects in ways that inspire you too extrapolate with your own variations. The Chapin book is mostly just a pig of an excercise book, but this is jazz, this is creative expression, and the book gives me very little on this front.
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
I tend to agree with The_Colonel and oops - Advanced Techniques blew me away when I first opened it. It was the first jazz book I studied, I had no clue what I was doing, and it kicked my ass many times. Years later when I found Art of Bop, and more recently the Dawson book, I find the practical aspects of the Chapin book handicapped.

Riley's book actually talks about, you know, the MUSIC and provides the same fundamentals in a better layout, while the Dawson book really explores the more advanced conceptual aspects in ways that inspire you too extrapolate with your own variations. The Chapin book is mostly just a pig of an excercise book, but this is jazz, this is creative expression, and the book gives me very little on this front.
I dunno, Toby...maybe you missed something...
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Actually, as you know Colonel, the opposite is true. Though historically, Jim's books was an extraordinary move forward in drum set technique, many people then and now did/do not see it's value, except for the opening sections. I, personally, like the lay out because it presents fundamental rhythmic concepts, which become the basis for many popular grooves. It has become so much more valuable because now we can see that there are many ostinatos that you can play against these fundamental patterns.
 

tim1987

Member
A quote from my teacher- "What should my lh, bd be doing when playing jazz?

Answer- If you hear nothing, carry on playing swinging time."

I've learnt it's a bit of a myth that we have to get involved with complicated patterns to be a great jazz drummer. Don't get me wrong, it's a great book, but don't get to the point where you use it where it's not needed and more importantly wanted. I'm trying get myself out of this trap.

One more quote from my teacher- "Independence is not enough, it must be supported by a strong sense of musicality. Musicality vs technicality, musicality wins hands downs every time". How true.

Jim Blackley's books Syncopated Rolls and Essence of Jazz Drumming goes down the path of musicality first, the technicality comes second.

Happy drumming!
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
Actually, as you know Colonel, the opposite is true. Though historically, Jim's books was an extraordinary move forward in drum set technique, many people then and now did/do not see it's value, except for the opening sections. I, personally, like the lay out because it presents fundamental rhythmic concepts, which become the basis for many popular grooves. It has become so much more valuable because now we can see that there are many ostinatos that you can play against these fundamental patterns.
As I know what opposite is true?

Okay, everyone - go on and keep using Jim's book. I am totally fine with that. As always - or almost always - it was my *opinion* that the book is obsolete. I used the book for years, and it never inspired me to stretch beyond the page. I found Dawson's teachings to inspire more and more rhythms/interpretations/etc. It's a more organic way of learning to play, INMYNOTSOHUMBLEOPINION. Just the other day, I was warming up with a variation of:

R=ride pattern
L fills in triplets
RFoot/BD = short notes
LFoot/HH = open HH splashes

and after finishing a few pages through Syncopation, decided - without previously practicing it - to try and play the same variation but with the left hand playing the ride pattern - went through the same pages quite nicely/easily. It was all about knowing the sounds/phrases - what it's supposed to sound like in my head and on the drums at the same time and the body just somehow knew how to make it work. I have never experienced anything like that with Chapin's book.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
As I know what opposite is true?
People agree with you not only that the book is obsolete; but many say that it never had much value. If it doesn't for someone, then, I doesn't

I think that one needs to be realistic about the practicality of what we study. In that sense, I agree that Dawson's exercises are much more practical. But I've spent a lot of hours with Jim's book and certainly don't regret any of it. :)
 
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EltonBear

Junior Member
I think most of you guys are missing the point. I haven't read this particular book, but it's on my to-do list. As with any technical exercise, Chapin's philosophy is that his book is to be used as a starting point for your own musical ideas.

Just because we learn Paradiddles, Flams, and Ratamacues doesn't mean that we are unable to play a simple 4/4 funk groove without adding unnecessary fills.
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
If you haven't used his book, and are privvy to why he put the book out, I feel that maybe he was trying to make a buck (perhaps back in the day, 'cause he's very very old now)


Sure it's a "starting point" but there are other more worthwhile starting points these days. I still love the fact that everyone here is still so gun[g]-ho about the book, while claiming to know absolutely NOTHING about Dawson...


Just sad...that's all.

[I am trying to HELP everyone here]
 

abe

Senior Member
If you haven't used his book, and are privvy to why he put the book out, I feel that maybe he was trying to make a buck (perhaps back in the day, 'cause he's very very old now)


Sure it's a "starting point" but there are other more worthwhile starting points these days. I still love the fact that everyone here is still so gun[g]-ho about the book, while claiming to know absolutely NOTHING about Dawson...


Just sad...that's all.

[I am trying to HELP everyone here]
I've tried both approaches and all I can say that they supplement each other and both are good.
I don't know better starting points. There is basic ''spang a lang'' ride patern, then maybe 2&4 on hihat and you take Chapins book and learn basic coordination to play simple left hand compings. That's the starting point. After that, do same thing with bass drum. Later mix it up. Then next level is Dawson. Dawson teach you four way coordination and reading skills and start to ''stimulate'' students own musical imagination. Remember that Dawson wanted student to play through Syncopation and not stop or play seperate bars (Except if mistake occured. Then you made mental note and went back later to play that bar). But to read even first exercise in page 38 without stoping, you have to have quiet good coordination already. Young students can achieve that by practicing Chapin's book. And those who didn't do that made same Chapin's exercises by themselves.

I hope that it was joke about ''Chapin's buck making''!
 

tim1987

Member
I think Chapins book is great, but Dawson takes it to the next level IMHO. I'm taking a different approach to jazz time as my teacher is a former student of Jim Blackley and its a more musical approach.

But the Dawson method looks great for developing coordination.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
While we are all being enlighten by certain folks who who might think that they are bringing up a new and unique perspectives different from everyone else here, let's realize that there are ways to use the Chapin book other than as a jazz book. You can use any ostinato pattern against the rhythms, from a basic rock pattern, with or w/o HH openings, to varying funk and Latin funk patterns, So it is a lot more attune to what you see in Gary Chester's book. It also gives the beginning student a visual aid to the jazz pattern; whereas the Syncopation book necessitates that the student already possesses a locked in understanding of the jazz pattern and how it relates to the comping.
 
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