Jack DeJohnette and recent jazz discussion on the forum

WhoIsTony?

Member
There have been multiple discussions on this forum lately about the more modern jazz playing approach as opposed to more traditional playing with hi hats steadily on 2 and 4 and "55" driving the band.

I'm currently messing with a Jack DeJohnette transcription that I feel really encapsulates that ECM style that pushed the "modern" stye forward in the 60s and 70s

Notice how Jack would use the hi hat as another comping voice along with his other 3 limbs.

This kind of playing is what later morphed into players like Jorge Rossy, Marcus Gilmore, Ari Hoenig, Mark Guiliana, Bill Stewart, Ian Froman etc. etc. etc.

I’ve always believed that if you want to absorb pieces of a player or style that you love you have to feel what they played come off of your limbs via transcription or by ear and see what sticks.

My goodness Jack is a beast.

here's what I'm messing with ... warts and all

 
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Mr Farkle

Well-known Member
That sounds great to me!! I've been working on similar material but I'm not up to that level of fluidity or speed. What is your approach to learning something like that? Do you break it down into bite size pieces and then weave those pieces together bar by bar?

Beyond Bop has a section dedicated to similar phrasing. This morning I was thinking that I could hang on those pages for years. Same goes for the triplet phrasing pages in The Art of Bop Pg 28-29. There's a massive amount of information on those 4 pages.

Steve Holmes has a video in which he plays the first four bars of Syncopation page 37 (new page 38) on the hi hat and then fills in the rest of the triplets on the snare, all while playing four on the bass and the standard swing ride. This was far beyond my ability when I first saw the video but I became slightly obsessed on working it out and, as he mentions in the video, it pretty much released my left foot from 2 and 4.

 

WhoIsTony?

Member
That sounds great to me!! I've been working on similar material but I'm not up to that level of fluidity or speed. What is your approach to learning something like that? Do you break it down into bite size pieces and then weave those pieces together bar by bar?

Beyond Bop has a section dedicated to similar phrasing. This morning I was thinking that I could hang on those pages for years. Same goes for the triplet phrasing pages in The Art of Bop Pg 28-29. There's a massive amount of information on those 4 pages.

Steve Holmes has a video in which he plays the first four bars of Syncopation page 37 (new page 38) on the hi hat and then fills in the rest of the triplets on the snare, all while playing four on the bass and the standard swing ride. This was far beyond my ability when I first saw the video but I became slightly obsessed on working it out and, as he mentions in the video, it pretty much released my left foot from 2 and 4.


I'll learn a measure at a time sometimes ... maybe a full line ... then loop it for a while ... sometimes 10 minutes ... sometimes an hour ... sometimes a couple days ... depends

yes.... I use the syncopation method with my students pretty much every day ... that method is as old as the hills ... people have been learning jazz coordination this was since the 1930s and 40s

Steve is a wonderful player
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
yep...I get that style for sure...and your playing is great...AND the tuning of the drums is also really helping

I still totally feel the 2 and 4 in your playing, even though it is not obvious, that whole thing was rooted in the 2 and 4 backbeat...at least in my head. That back beat was really giving what you were doing serious groove to me...

but I get the kind of playing you are referencing...and I use the hi hat like that in my swing band a lot. We play very low volume stuff...just me on drums, bass, guitar and a muted trumpet. Often times, instead of doing a regular cymbal crash, I do splashes on the hats to keep the volume down, and I stray from the 2 and 4 for that...granted, the rest of the drumming is not that busy, but it is sort of the same use. And I also got it from doing syncopation exercises as a young'n...I think syncopation was the second word I ever said other than Krupa if my dad had his way
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
yep...I get that style for sure...and your playing is great...AND the tuning of the drums is also really helping

I still totally feel the 2 and 4 in your playing, even though it is not obvious, that whole thing was rooted in the 2 and 4 backbeat...at least in my head. That back beat was really giving what you were doing serious groove to me...

but I get the kind of playing you are referencing...and I use the hi hat like that in my swing band a lot. We play very low volume stuff...just me on drums, bass, guitar and a muted trumpet. Often times, instead of doing a regular cymbal crash, I do splashes on the hats to keep the volume down, and I stray from the 2 and 4 for that...granted, the rest of the drumming is not that busy, but it is sort of the same use. And I also got it from doing syncopation exercises as a young'n...I think syncopation was the second word I ever said other than Krupa if my dad had his way
Right on man
I dig that you can feel those beats strong inside all of that ... that’s probably the biggest compliment I’ve received in a long time actually even if it wasn’t meant to be.
I’m not great at playing other people’s stuff ... but I dig doing it to try to get inside their heads a bit

thanks for checking it out
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
....AND, this style of playing is also one more thing I have to add to my list for next year to get better at...so thanks for the push!!!
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
Right on man
I dig that you can feel those beats strong inside all of that ... that’s probably the biggest compliment I’ve received in a long time actually even if it wasn’t meant to be.
I’m not great at playing other people’s stuff ... but I dig doing it to try to get inside their heads a bit

thanks for checking it out

it actually was intended as a compliment in a way because I know that you know where the foundation of that beat was...you could not have been doing it that well without that foundational layer. As I was listening, I was thinking "that is phat"...the foundation made it not seem busy, but more tasty for sure
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
it actually was intended as a compliment in a way because I know that you know where the foundation of that beat was...you could not have been doing it that well without that foundational layer. As I was listening, I was thinking "that is phat"...the foundation made it not seem busy, but more tasty for sure
Thank you sir
Truly appreciated
 
Beyond Bop has a section dedicated to similar phrasing.
This is the transcription of "Picture 3" from Beyond Bop. :) Unless Tony did the transcription himself of course.
A really nice tune that unfortunately is no longer on youtube. The fluidity with which Jack weaves in and out of different feels is really cool. Thank you for this video - since I'm working on this transcription every now and then, I'll use it as a reference for further learning. :)
 

rhumbagirl

Senior Member
Nice playing Tony! I haven't worked on my jazz in almost a year, so you've got me feeling real guilty right about now, thanks.
 
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