It's All in the Wrists, Bonham Fans!

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
All this begs the question...should The Who have kept going on?

What great songs would we have missed? Earnest question, not implying a thing.

I think The Zep guys did the classiest and most respectful thing possible. They had a great run and altered the culture...what more is there?
Based upon accounts I've encountered, The Who went on in an effort to ease Pete Townsend's grief over the demise of Keith Moon. The drummer they acquired was a good one but was insipid compared to flamboyant Keith. The band never regained its initial flare.

We drummers might sit at the back of the stage, but the stage would be empty without us.
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
A couple thoughts....

If you are looking for someone who can “rock out” to replace Bonham you are looking in the wrong direction. What you want is someone who could “swing” or jazz in a rock context and make it sound right. Way too much fluidity in Bonham's playing to replace with a “rock” drummer. THAT was the magic. We all have played to “the records” lol. We “know” there is something in there that’s not quite “right” from a doom-splat rock perspective. What we lost in Bonham was a man who breathed life into the music by bending space and time.

Which leads to....

Bonham vs Peart-Peart’s magic was in writing fantastic parts that meshed fantastically to the rest of the song. Lol. He created unique multifaceted rhythmic counterparts that could make your hair stand on end with their sheer artistry. BUT-there was no unique “soul” to drum parts that bent space and time. Like notes put on a page by Mozart, as fantastic as those combinations are-they could be replicated by others (not me lol) accurately and dynamically so that it would be hard to tell the difference in a blind test. Similar to symphonic\orchestral players play Mozart's music today. FULL of emotion for sure, but not "unplayable" by anyone else but Mozart. (Obviously my opinion). What we lost in Peart was a drummer who made us think harder and more “orchestrally” about how and what we play.

Copeland-Stuart turned the whole scene in it’s head when he hit. We went from fat and thuddy snare drums to high and tight snare drums. From 1/4s on the hats to 16th note “flourishes”. He was BIG and over-the top but he did it surgically. While others were using baseball bats, Stuart came in with razor blades. Other guys left bruises while Stuart left a thousand paper-cuts that made you THINK “I don’t HAVE to play that snare beat there....I don’t have to bang the crap out of ALL my toms” every time you heard the tune... What we had and have with Stuart is the FREEDOM to just play without fear of doing it “wrong”.

All three are MONSTERS of the craft and worthy of respect-and study in order to broaden ourselves as drummers. Just some thoughts from an old dog, old enough to be there when all three first started out. not forming a religion and won’t die for any of it....

Lol

PS-apologies for typos. I seem to have lost my bifocals and I am typing on a phone. My eyes are killing me at the moment.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
A couple thoughts....

If you are looking for someone who can “rock out” to replace Bonham you are looking in the wrong direction. What you want is someone who could “swing” or jazz in a rock context and make it sound right. Way too much fluidity in Bonham's playing to replace with a “rock” drummer. THAT was the magic. We all have played to “the records” lol. We “know” there is something in there that’s not quite “right” from a doom-splat rock perspective. What we lost in Bonham was a man who breathed life into the music by bending space and time.

Which leads to....

Bonham vs Peart-Peart’s magic was in writing fantastic parts that meshed fantastically to the rest of the song. Lol. He created unique multifaceted rhythmic counterparts that could make your hair stand in end with their sheer artistry. BUT-there was no unique “soul” to them that bent space and time. Like notes out on a page by Mozart, as fantastic as though combinations are-they can be replicated by others (not me lol) accurately and dynamically so that t would be hard to tell the difference in a blind test. (Obviously my opinion). What we lost in Peart was a drummer who made us think harder and more “orchestrally” about how and what we play.

Copeland-Stuart turned the whole scene in it’s head when he hit. We went from fat and thuddy snare drums to high and tight snare drums. From 1/4s in the hats to 16th note “flourishes”. He was BIG and over-the top but he did it surgically. While others were using baseball bats, Stuart came in with razor blades. Other guys left bruises while Stuart left a thousand paper-cuts that made you THINK “I don’t HAVE to play that snare beat there....I don’t have to bang the crap out of ALL my toms” every time you heard the tune... What we had and have with Stuart is the FREEDOM to just play without fear of doing it “wrong”.

All thre are MONSTERS of the craft and worthy of respect-and study in order to broaden ourselves as drummers. Just some thoughts from an old dog, old enough to be there when all three first started out. not forming a religion and won’t die for any of it....

Lol

ps-apologies for typos. I seem to have lost my bifocals and I am typing on a phone. My eyes are killing me at the moment.
Excellent analysis. I have always seen Peart as a mathematical equation and Copeland as a cultured animal walking the line between learnedness and savagery. Neil was a finetuned machine, a calculative apparatus incapable of error. Stewart was brute spontaneity tempered by good taste. Two inimitable drummers. Very different results.
 

Mongrel

Silver Member
Excellent analysis. I have always seen Peart as a mathematical equation and Copeland as a cultured animal walking the line between learnedness and savagery. Neil was a finetuned machine, a calculative apparatus incapable of error. Stewart was brute spontaneity tempered by good taste. Two inimitable drummers. Very different results.
Excellent! Less words...BETTER analysis!

love it
 
When it comes to replacements, Peart is irreplaceable...as far as composing goes. When it comes to performing, I think there are many drummers who'd do a fine job recreating his parts. And I think Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson have such clear love and admiration and respect for Peart, and the fanbase for them, that I actually think they could get away with it, if they so choose. Perhaps not using the formal Rush name? A Night of Rush Music Plus or something like that?

Copeland, on the other hand, I think is actually more irreplaceable when it comes to live performances. I think the fans would care less, but the music would suffer significantly more.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
When it comes to replacements, Peart is irreplaceable...as far as composing goes. When it comes to performing, I think there are many drummers who'd do a fine job recreating his parts. And I think Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson have such clear love and admiration and respect for Peart, and the fanbase for them, that I actually think they could get away with it, if they so choose. Perhaps not using the formal Rush name? A Night of Rush Music Plus or something like that?

Copeland, on the other hand, I think is actually more irreplaceable when it comes to live performances. I think the fans would care less, but the music would suffer significantly more.
That's a good point. I can see how rush fans would be more emotionally bound to Peart than Police fans would be to Copeland but how, say, a great studio drummer might be able to impersonate Peart more convincingly than he could mimic Copeland. It goes without saying, though, that both guys are indispensible.
 
I can see how rush fans would be more emotionally bound to Peart than Police fans would be to Copeland but how, say, a great studio drummer might be able to impersonate Peart more convincingly than he could mimic Copeland.
Exactly. Peart was famously for playing precisely the same thing in concert every time, like a classical composition, and considering the parts, that was one of the amazing things about him. Whereas, to Sting's frustration, Copeland is famous for not playing the same thing twice, but always with the instantly recognizable Copeland sound and style.
 

Lexer

Member
I also think Vinny Appice might have worked. He has some great bass drum grooves as shown in some of his video’s. I love his drumming and think he is somewhat overlooked.
 

Sticks Of Fury

Senior Member
hey guys.
this is an interesting thread. i talked about on here, years back, about some drummers who could have fit in with led zeppelin after john bonham died. i gave a big list in the past. i'll narrow it down more, for this thread. don't laugh at my choices. these drummers were/are similar to bonham, style-wise. carmine and vinny appice, cozy powell, bobby chouinard(billy squier's drummer), denny carmassi, frankie banali, jerry shirley?michael derosier, lee kerslake? bobby rondinelli(but he probably would have been too technical), barry brandt(angel), dave holland? james kottak, bill wade(moxy, sounded exactly like bonham), jon hyde(detective, sounded exactly like bonham), dave mattacks(played with jimmy page on death wish II soundtrack and sounded exactly like bonham on there). i personally think that jason bonham was more technical and had better chops than his dad, but i haven't heard that much from him, over the years. his drumming on the "bonham" debut album from '89 was really good. take care, dudes. later.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I think every drummer will add their interpretation in playing to any original song-on another thread was asked Fantasy Gig. Mine was Steely Dan but dang with a dozen different drummers there's plenty of thread of whose playing on what song. And you can hear Gadd, Purdie, etc influence in a song (pfsstt, pfsstt,pfsstt, pfsstt). So if I had been the only drummer for all their gigs all the variety of flavors would be lost.We'd be saying Steely who? Bonham had his thing and as a teen I thought his shuffles had an Off-beatness to them that I really liked (I don't know why I took it as "off-beat" but I think it was in context to other rock drummers-it wouldn't take you but a few seconds of Bonham playing to know it was him, as many drummers have their distinctive character comes through. I guess it's like actors-some like Marlon Brando, Robert DeNiro and Jack Nicholson character always shows through in their acting (part of their charm) other actors their identity is lost in the character they are so convincing- I like both.
 

tfgretsch

Junior Member
A couple thoughts....

If you are looking for someone who can “rock out” to replace Bonham you are looking in the wrong direction. What you want is someone who could “swing” or jazz in a rock context and make it sound right. Way too much fluidity in Bonham's playing to replace with a “rock” drummer. THAT was the magic. We all have played to “the records” lol. We “know” there is something in there that’s not quite “right” from a doom-splat rock perspective. What we lost in Bonham was a man who breathed life into the music by bending space and time.

Which leads to....

Bonham vs Peart-Peart’s magic was in writing fantastic parts that meshed fantastically to the rest of the song. Lol. He created unique multifaceted rhythmic counterparts that could make your hair stand on end with their sheer artistry. BUT-there was no unique “soul” to drum parts that bent space and time. Like notes put on a page by Mozart, as fantastic as those combinations are-they could be replicated by others (not me lol) accurately and dynamically so that it would be hard to tell the difference in a blind test. Similar to symphonic\orchestral players play Mozart's music today. FULL of emotion for sure, but not "unplayable" by anyone else but Mozart. (Obviously my opinion). What we lost in Peart was a drummer who made us think harder and more “orchestrally” about how and what we play.

Copeland-Stuart turned the whole scene in it’s head when he hit. We went from fat and thuddy snare drums to high and tight snare drums. From 1/4s on the hats to 16th note “flourishes”. He was BIG and over-the top but he did it surgically. While others were using baseball bats, Stuart came in with razor blades. Other guys left bruises while Stuart left a thousand paper-cuts that made you THINK “I don’t HAVE to play that snare beat there....I don’t have to bang the crap out of ALL my toms” every time you heard the tune... What we had and have with Stuart is the FREEDOM to just play without fear of doing it “wrong”.

All three are MONSTERS of the craft and worthy of respect-and study in order to broaden ourselves as drummers. Just some thoughts from an old dog, old enough to be there when all three first started out. not forming a religion and won’t die for any of it....

Lol

PS-apologies for typos. I seem to have lost my bifocals and I am typing on a phone. My eyes are killing me at the moment.
EXCELLent post !! THanks for the treat !!
 
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