It's All in the Wrists, Bonham Fans!

Seafroggys

Silver Member
I think I know what you mean on the point of Vinny's rigidity. I'd describe it more as precision. His grooves have a military character, full of unbending urgency. His sound can seem stiff at times, but I'd wager that's intentional. To me, he's better than his brother, Carmine, but that debate could get emotional for some (especially for Carmine).
Yeah, I guess. I'm not knocking his technical prowess, that guy guy can obviously play. And its not like he takes away from the songs. But its like, I was listening to Heaven and Hell (the Dio Black Sabbath reunion band, not the album/song, although they did play those too) and everything Vinny drummed on that Bill Ward originally drummed on was just a marked difference in flow and feel.

Considering that Cozy died in the late 90's, Zeppelin could have carried on in the 80's with him. He was done with Rainbow by that point and it would have been a killer gig.
 

MntnMan62

Junior Member
No to Weckl. No to Cobham. He may be a monster but he isn’t as smooth as Bonham was. No to Appice. What about Aynsley Dunbar? He clearly has the chops having spent many years with Zappa. And he can clearly rock out.
 
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larryace

"Uncle Larry"
No to Weckl. No to Cobham. He may be a monster but he isn’t as smooth as Bonham was. No to Appice. What about Aynsley Dunbar? He clearly has the chops having spent many years with Zappa. And he can clearly rock out.
Funny, I agree with you about Weckl and Cobham, but for the opposite reason.

I think they are too smooth lol.

Everyone's view is valid.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Yeah, I guess. I'm not knocking his technical prowess, that guy guy can obviously play. And its not like he takes away from the songs. But its like, I was listening to Heaven and Hell (the Dio Black Sabbath reunion band, not the album/song, although they did play those too) and everything Vinny drummed on that Bill Ward originally drummed on was just a marked difference in flow and feel.

Considering that Cozy died in the late 90's, Zeppelin could have carried on in the 80's with him. He was done with Rainbow by that point and it would have been a killer gig.
I can't believe Bill Ward didn't cross my mind. There's a guy who would drill a backbeat.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Funny, I agree with you about Weckl and Cobham, but for the opposite reason.

I think they are too smooth lol.

Everyone's view is valid.
I wonder what Bonham's view might have been. Would he have supported Zeppelin's decision to call it quits, or might he have preferred their plowing forth with a new fellow on the throne? Of course, making presumptions about the perspectives of the deceased is an exercise in madness. It's challenging enough to synthesize the ideas of the living.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I tend to leave Zeppelin where it is. So I don't really entertain thoughts on who would be a good replacement for John Bonham. Although I think back in my youth I would've thought Carmine Appice would be a good choice - they both came up in the same era, and even played the same drums then. He studied some jazz and could have quite a bit of finesse when the time came. But it wouldn't have been Zeppelin at that point. There's so many other factors other than how the guy plays drums that affect a group. Even Zack Starkey isn't Keith Moon. I think Zeppelin was smart to call it quits after John died. The family angle of having Jason play the O2 concert was a nice move, and they knew it. There are a handful of groups that wouldn't be the same with other people, and Zeppelin is at the top of that list. So I'll just enjoy the albums we did get from them and let it go.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
I tend to leave Zeppelin where it is. So I don't really entertain thoughts on who would be a good replacement for John Bonham. Although I think back in my youth I would've thought Carmine Appice would be a good choice - they both came up in the same era, and even played the same drums then. He studied some jazz and could have quite a bit of finesse when the time came. But it wouldn't have been Zeppelin at that point. There's so many other factors other than how the guy plays drums that affect a group. Even Zack Starkey isn't Keith Moon. I think Zeppelin was smart to call it quits after John died. The family angle of having Jason play the O2 concert was a nice move, and they knew it. There are a handful of groups that wouldn't be the same with other people, and Zeppelin is at the top of that list. So I'll just enjoy the albums we did get from them and let it go.
Yeah, as fun as our academic discussion of potential replacements has been, I can't imagine Zeppelin with any other drummer. Apparently, the band couldn't either.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Yeah, as fun as our academic discussion of potential replacements has been, I can't imagine Zeppelin with any other drummer. Apparently, the band couldn't either.
We may never see Rush go out with someone else, and imagine if the Police had someone other than Copeland? I thought Toto shouldn't have replaced Jeff, but when they came out with Simon (who is on the other side of the spectrum), they became a slightly different band, which was cool. And now Toto with Shannon Larkin is leaning back towards to Jeff - but Toto's head space is different - they all grew up in L.A., fighting it out in the studio scene, so they're used to having access to the best players. Actual bands are different.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
We may never see Rush go out with someone else, and imagine if the Police had someone other than Copeland? I thought Toto shouldn't have replaced Jeff, but when they came out with Simon (who is on the other side of the spectrum), they became a slightly different band, which was cool. And now Toto with Shannon Larkin is leaning back towards to Jeff - but Toto's head space is different - they all grew up in L.A., fighting it out in the studio scene, so they're used to having access to the best players. Actual bands are different.
Of the iconic names you mention, my gut tells me that a Police reunion without Copeland would be the most egregious atrocity. His acrobatic hi-hat tactics and ear-cracking snare formed the very lifeline of the Police. I can't believe I'm writing this, but he seems harder to replace than Peart.

Toto, a phenomenal ensemble of talent, always struck me as more of a formally assembled studio band. As great as Jeff was, a lot of guys can fill his shoes.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Of the iconic names you mention, my gut tells me that a Police reunion without Copeland would be the most egregious atrocity. His acrobatic hi-hat tactics and ear-cracking snare formed the very lifeline of the Police. I can't believe I'm writing this, but he seems harder to replace than Peart.

Toto, a phenomenal ensemble of talent, always struck me as more of a formally assembled studio band. As great as Jeff was, a lot of guys can fill his shoes.
what? I don’t think fans were going to police concerts and air drumming copeland’s parts. Rush fans are as rabid and obsessive as they come.

For sure Copeland is irreplaceable but Peart is on another level given the meticulousness of the fan base.
 
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C.M. Jones

Well-known member
what? With all due respect to Copeland, I don’t think fans were going to police concerts and air drumming his parts.

For sure Copeland is irreplaceable but Peart is on another level.
Yeah, I thought my statement might draw opposition, which is perfectly valid, of course. It all comes down to preference. Both Rush and the Police would be absurd without Peart and Copeland, respectively. For some reason, Copeland is more distinctive to my ears. No disrespect to Peart.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Ah you see you responded before I had a chance to edit my post. Didn’t want to imply that one was better than the other - glad you see it the same way. (y)

Edited my post to clarify it is just a reflection of the fan base
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
All this begs the question...should The Who have kept going on?

What great songs would we have missed? Earnest question, not implying a thing.

I think The Zep guys did the classiest and most respectful thing possible. They had a great run and altered the culture...what more is there?
 

newoldie

Silver Member
I tend to leave Zeppelin where it is. So I don't really entertain thoughts on who would be a good replacement for John Bonham. Although I think back in my youth I would've thought Carmine Appice would be a good choice - they both came up in the same era, and even played the same drums then. He studied some jazz and could have quite a bit of finesse when the time came. But it wouldn't have been Zeppelin at that point. There's so many other factors other than how the guy plays drums that affect a group. Even Zack Starkey isn't Keith Moon. I think Zeppelin was smart to call it quits after John died. The family angle of having Jason play the O2 concert was a nice move, and they knew it. There are a handful of groups that wouldn't be the same with other people, and Zeppelin is at the top of that list. So I'll just enjoy the albums we did get from them and let it go.
Exactly what Robert Plant stated in a 1982 interview (link below quote):
"After we lost John we issued a statement to that effect but everybody read it as being ambiguous. I can’t even remember the wording of it now. But no, there’s absolutely no point. No point at all. There’s certain people you don’t do without in life, you don’t keep things going for the sake of it. There’s no functional purpose for keeping things going. For whose convenience? Nobody’s, really.

No one could ever have taken over John’s job. Never, ever! Impossible. I listen to Zeppelin stuff now and I realise how important John was. When he drummed he was right there with either my voice or whatever Pagey was doing… you couldn’t have found anybody with the same kind of ingredient to make the band really take off like John did.

For all the shit that hit the fan those many times… we all sort of rose out of it together going: “We don’t care – take this!” And you don’t start carrying on with people who weren’t a part of that. Impossible."
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
You can't change it. If Bonham the drummer for the Beatles and Ringo the drummer for Led Zeppelin we'd all be likely saying "Who?". NO not The Who but Who. But if the Eagles had Keith Moon as drummer-how would that work? It's about Space and Time-so not the album with Ric Lee but the physical Space-Time. It's band-and like some movies I hate when they change characters on me as the series goes on.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
Well, not really.
I get your point, and I'm not dismissing Jeff's greatness as a drummer or the inherent complexities of replacing bandmates. It seems merely that fans saw Toto as more of a unit, which isn't as applicable to the Police and Rush, both of whom had members with singular identities. If you asked most listeners whether Toto could continue if their drummer left, the answer would largely be yes. That's not true of Rush and the Police.
 
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