"It's a long way to the top..."(or) Can a band still develop from local into international?

Jeremy Bender

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
P.F. seen both their early days and in their big time. I wonder if we'll see the era again where a band can develop from local into international like those bands did back then...

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I don't think the internet - or the live music scenes - allow for that anymore

at least around here in Central Ohio, if there are 50 clubs in town, 2 are allowing live original music bands to play. So that venue for a band to "start local" and grow big has been eliminated, at least for us

on the flip side, anyone can post a video on Youtube and get likes, meanign that many bands/artists skip that "long, slow haul from obscure to famous" that bands up to the 2000's had to go through.

I also feel like the "famous/successful" boundaries have been blown wide open b/c of the internet as well.

And in a way, I feel sorry for the artists who don't get to do the "long slow grind" to popularity becasue they are missing out on a litany of great times, learning experiences, and memories. I learned TONS of life lessons during my 15 or so years of pursuing a record deal etc...
 
I remember seeing PF in Melbourne way back when "early 70's", the venue was half empty and the only people there were Hippie Uni Students. They had quadrophonic sound back then .. Gilmour sat on the floor with his back to the audience twiddling knobs on a stack of Marshall heads . Most people didn't know what a Pink Floyd was. They were however quite amazing, I can still hear Careful with that Axe Eugene.. AC/DC the following evening at a local pub. Playing the circuits sorted the cream from the milk, constant live playing is why that music is so iconic. There is Great music around now but it lacks that creamy flavour so to speak..71kd9d62z8L._SL1087_.jpg
 
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I was just thinking about this. I feel that is becoming much less possible. Lack of venues may be one of the problem, however I feel that there is a bigger social problem. I've noticed this across a number of different leisure activities, elitism is dominating. Basically, access to resources for advancement are controlled by a few elite coaches, trainers, teachers, venues etc. Kids who want to succeed will dedicate hours a day on top of school to further that, in a way that few parents can afford to support. Only a few can afford access to these resources. Not that that this produces talent, just the number of people who even have a chance to prove themselves is much smaller. The net effect appears that we are producing some very small number of super stars who were wealthy to begin with and the rest of us are supposed to watch them on TV. It is basically the Taylor Swift method to success.
 
Back in the day... a band needed a record label to get real exposure. Even bands that managed a following on college radio (with independent releases) could only get so far before a label was required for national/international exposure on commercial radio and cable TV programming. Bands couldn't do that by themselves.

More recently, with artists and bands being able to more easily produce recordings on their own and promote music and videos via the internet, there's a glut of artists out there. It's great for listeners to have choices, but it's also harder for a band to stand out in the crowd. But even then, a 'record' label is usually needed to take that artist to a bigger commercial level with better longevity.

I can't think of anyone who has managed real international success and remained completely independent. That's not to say there aren't lots of talented and likeable artists on the web, but the vast majority will not cross the threshold into mainstream exposure (and mainstream dollars.)
 
As drummer with just average talent playing in local bar bands, here's what I encounter from some musicians.

The Dream: "I'm super talented, smart, likable and am on the threshold of becoming rich and famous. I just need the right exposure to push me over the edge."

The Reality: "You're competing with thousands of other artists for an ever dwindling number of job opportunities. Your competition is more talented and you, is located in a better market, has a professional level internet presence and is willing to work harder."
 
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bermuda said:
More recently, with artists and bands being able to more easily produce recordings on their own and promote music and videos via the internet, there's a glut of artists out there.
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I think this is the real rub for many. As resources do become available and there are artists out there that are good, it becomes more and more difficult to tolerate the elitism. It was one thing back in the day to see someone that had master chops that were way better than anything you could do, but these days that gap has narrowed, but the elitism is still there.
 
A J said:
The Dream: "I'm super talented, smart, likable and am on the threshold of becoming rich and famous. I just need the right exposure to push me over the edge."
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All are important elements, but at least as important as all combined is that the music/product be accessible. That is, people need to like it. If the end result of all that passion and hard work and 'correct' business decisions doesn't have any appeal, then it amounts to nothing.

Now, I'm sure the artists out there are cringing - "I don't want to make commercial, popular music. That means I've sold-out." Well, they don't have to. They can make music for their own enjoyment and for other like-minded musicians. But their appeal will be limited as will their income, and they'll bemoan the fact that they can't make a real living, completely missing the irony of doing what they want, not what anyone else wants.

Are all musicians required to make a living playing? No, but the vast majority seek to do so. And I'm always amused when players with amazing chops but little musical perspective wonder why they can't get work. The fact is, every player I know who's a musician first works, and every player I know who's an amazing technician but won't just play the parts, is not working much or at all.

Ya gotta give the people what they want. If you don't, you're not allowed to ask what went wrong.
 
bermuda said:
All are important elements, but at least as important as all combined is that the music/product be accessible. That is, people need to like it. If the end result of all that passion and hard work and 'correct' business decisions doesn't have any appeal, then it amounts to nothing.

Now, I'm sure the artists out there are cringing - "I don't want to make commercial, popular music. That means I've sold-out." Well, they don't have to. They can make music for their own enjoyment and for other like-minded musicians. But their appeal will be limited as will their income, and they'll bemoan the fact that they can't make a real living, completely missing the irony of doing what they want, not what anyone else wants.

Are all musicians required to make a living playing? No, but the vast majority seek to do so. And I'm always amused when players with amazing chops but little musical perspective wonder why they can't get work. The fact is, every player I know who's a musician first works, and every player I know who's an amazing technician but won't just play the parts, is not working much or at all.

Ya gotta give the people what they want. If you don't, you're not allowed to ask what went wrong.
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In a nutshell, people want great things but don't have the talent and aren't willing to work.

For example; a local guitar player describes his plans for "making it big" all the while moving at a snail's pace to accomplish that objective. He's unwilling to perform work he doesn't like. He refuses to put in the hours an won't get his hands dirty doing tasks that he feels are beneath him.

I've heard the complaints about "selling out". It's a cry of jealousy, a loser's wail. They're the same sort of people who want to do things THEIR way. As a result, nobody wants to hire them. If somebody hires you to do a job, you better do it. Yes; your input is respected, but ultimately the guy who writes the check is driving the bus... not you.

The person writing the check is the boss. I recently hired a contractor to build a barn for me. As part of the deal, I'm working alongside him every step of the way. He is building the barn I want, not the one HE wants. He has come up with many improvements to my original design but in the end, he always checks with me first. If this contractor had insisted on doing everything HIS way, I never would have hired him.
 
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SmoothOperator said:
I think this is the real rub for many. As resources do become available and there are artists out there that are good, it becomes more and more difficult to tolerate the elitism. It was one thing back in the day to see someone that had master chops that were way better than anything you could do, but these days that gap has narrowed, but the elitism is still there.
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Tolerate what elitism?? I don't follow...
 
bermuda said:
I can't think of anyone who has managed real international success and remained completely independent.
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Wouldn't Joe Bonamassa qualify as an independent artist who has achieved international fame and success? He releases his own music, manages his own career with some help, coordinates his sometimes very lame marketing and tours, etc.
 
BobC said:
Wouldn't Joe Bonamassa qualify as an independent artist who has achieved international fame and success? He releases his own music, manages his own career with some help, coordinates his sometimes very lame marketing and tours, etc.
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Yeah, I'd say he qualifies. And there are undoubtedly a handful of other exceptions. A literal handful.
 
bermuda said:
Yeah, I'd say he qualifies. And there are undoubtedly a handful of other exceptions. A literal handful.
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I'd say you're right on that. It's a very small number. I'm trying to think of another artist and I can't.
 
BobC said:
I'd say you're right on that. It's a very small number. I'm trying to think of another artist and I can't.
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Maybe Esteban, who was probably best known for performances on HSN to hawk his CDs, and they sold very well! Then again, that's a media-machine promotion, I don't think he cooked it up on his own. He also did concert dates, but really wasn't known as a concert attraction.

Come to think of it, I hadn't heard of Joe Bonamassa outside of his public television appearances.
 
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