Is this Exercise Good or Bad?

Souljacker

Silver Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N938PDAzwlw

As you can see this education video from Evans promotes the burn exercise. The guy says you should warm up before.

He's basically pushing his muscles to the limit and is quite tired after it, aiming to push his muscles to build more, like body builders.

But is this a good physical exercise to do? Is it dangerous/detrimental?

It has way more dislikes than likes and gets a lot of criticism in the comments section as you can see.

What do you all think?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I subscribe to the principles behind this, in a major way. That's how I work on technique, by fatiguing my muscles. It's a very controversial subject, but I am clearly on the side of fatiguing the muscles, have been all my life. After you build the muscles, you then have to learn to relax them, but you must build them first. I say good.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I'm sorry. I watched the first minute and I don't care how fast or long you do singles you are not going to tear muscles. The sticks weigh an ounce for gods sake. You may get a build up of lactic acid and feel a burning sensation, or develop a cramp, but you are not going to tear any muscles. I do agree you need to warm up for any exercise but come on. Watch the Evans tuning videos and for get this one. I'll stake my Phys Ed degree on this one. As Larry said, Fatigue but not tear, There is a principle in exercise called the overload principle. If you want to improve you either have to increase the time or distance of any exercise. If you run a mile in 6 minutes every day you will be able to run a mile in 6 minutes. to improve you either have to strive for more distance in 6 minutes or run the mile in less time, there fore overloading your body.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Does fatiguing muscles tear them? I know lactic acid builds up, that is the burn. A one ounce stick can definitely fatigue the finger muscles, I do it all the time. I just don't know if any tearing takes place. Fatiguing builds muscle, right? I know tearing down does. If I were to be asked if fatiguing builds muscle, I'd say yes because I feel stronger as time goes on. I think this is the thing that limits a lot of drummers. There is a "no pain at all" dogma that I disagree with.

I approach it like this.
Build the muscles. This generates a feeling which could be decsribed as pain. After a few days off, I work on relaxing the muscles. When I am ready to build more, I fatigue the muscles. Then I work on relaxing my " new and improved" muscles, and so on and so on. Over time you will have built muscles, while concurrently learning to relax your built up muscle. This has served my wonderfully throughout the years. I am very proud of my drumming muscle development, and super proud that my weak hand is essentially equal to my strong hand now. This has propelled my drumming to new levels. I am happier than I've ever been in that regard. My left hand does stuff now that just pops out, seemingly with no effort from me. I love it.
 
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8Mile

Platinum Member
You're not going to tear muscles playing single stroke rolls on a pad. I'd like to see a single documented case of that happening.
 

Souljacker

Silver Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EFWeTmLFs

It's funny, this video has nearly no dislikes. And it is similar enough in nature. Only you do each hand individually before both hands together.

I like this exercise I have to say, and maybe people trust him cos he does really good drum covers.

As regards muscles tearing, you can definitely feel a tightening sensation in your wrists and you will know when to eventually stop the exercise.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
A muscle tear is more properly described as a muscle strain, which means the fibers of a muscle in the body have been overstretched, resulting in a severe injury. In the more acute cases, this strain may give rise to a rupture of the capillaries and bleeding in the muscle. This type of injury usually occurs in people who participate in a physical sport but is not exclusive to those individuals. You may suffer from muscle strain (or muscle tear) from extreme or unnecessary physical activities, an improper warm-up prior to these activities or simply a lack of flexibility and conditioning needed for the sport or fitness regimen you're participating in.

Read more: What is a Muscle Tear? | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_4604377_muscle-tear_.html#ixzz26fSNJm8m
 

TheBob

Member
It's highly unlikely you are going to cause any microtrauma in the muscles with this exercise since the resistance is extremely low. You will build up your endurance and increase your ability to play in high lactic acid situations and also increase your bodies ability to remove the lactic acid more efficiently. If you do experience DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), then you are not training properly (ie you are doing too much too fast). In a strength training environment, we would consider a program which causes DOMS to be a poor training method.

The idea of tearing your muscle to build them up is based on outdated science and flawed logic. Bodybuilders do not want to "tear" their muscles (which is actually caused by microtrauma of the muscle fibers). Such microtrauma can lead to problems such as scar tissue build up. It's mainly the result of heavy eccentric weighted movements performed without a proper routine.

If you were to really "tear" your muscles, you would be in serious trouble (not microtrauma). I think the guy in the video is referring to the idea where some bodybuilders will suggest you have to break down your muscle in order for them to grow. Again, this is based on a myth and is considered outdated in the world of strength training.

Muscle mass is increased by the increased size of the muscle fibers, mainly the fast twitch muscle fibers, and fast twitch muscle fibers are usually activated in high intensity training (usually exercise close to your 1 rep max).

Muscular hyperplasia (increased number of muscle fibers) has not been shown to take place in humans in regards to resistance training. The increase in muscle mass is achieved through the increased size if individual muscle fibers (hypertrophy).

There are also many other benefits to this type of training. First, you will condition your neuromuscular system and exhaust your muscle fibers (mainly the slow twitch fibers depending on the intensity). This will allow you to increase your coordination in a high lactic acid and highly fatigued environment. You will also condition your bodies ability to remove metabolic waste, which can help you play longer without fatigue.

I have seen a lot of drum instruction videos which make erroneous comparisons to bodybuilding. It would be like a bodybuilder using drumming to make such a comparison by saying bodybuilding is like a drummer who tries to put a hole in their drum head or to tries to break a cymbal in order to get better at the drums (if that makes sense).

I do think applying strength training principles to drumming could be highly beneficial, but I also think they have to be applied correctly, just as they are for athletes in other sports.

Anyway, that is my position on the topic.
 
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Talismanis

Senior Member
Why not try it?
As long as you don't tense up you shouldn't get injured - I just recovered from a minor sprain by tensing my right hand too hard while playing (despite years of training to try and be relaxed!). Don't be tense, but feel the burn anyway.

I'd say make sure you do this in conjunction with staying relaxed and building up slowly though.
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I am all for fatiguing your muscles.....but I find this exercise to be quite silly
 

Muckster

Platinum Member
I'm not a fan of this. Tension free technique using a combination of fingers, hands and arms are the way to go IMHO.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
BTW, the drummer in that video is Lionel Duperron (Canada). He also did that Drum Fill System package offered by Railroad Media (some of you remember Jared Falk?) and he's giving online sessions for them.

Please don't take this as advertisement - it's meant as info. I 'know' Lionel from this system (I bought it) and from various online sessions (not 1-on-1, but 1-on-many) and I can assure you he's a reasonable guy. I was a bit surprised when I first saw that video a few months ago. Please take his advice as _one way_ to push your muscles. Think about it, do it if you consider it effective, try it (it may work for you), abandon it if it's no good etc. I think if we're drawing parallels to sports then pushing oneself as hard as possible does make sense - but not for everybody and not all the time. If you use it sparsely and not overdoing I think it can have an effect. Anyway - I can't understand people on YouTube are giving him so bad feedback for that video. I find that rather really annoying. He's providing some info and tips. It's up to you (and your common sense) what you make out of it.
 
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