Is there a Pearl sound?

[A J]

Interesting topic.

Aside from one orphaned Yamaha SC bass drum that just won't go away, all my drums are Pearl.

I really don't hear that much difference between brands of drums; oftentimes none at all. When playing drums at the same price point, they're pretty much all the same. The only sound difference that stood out to me was a Yamaha Recording Custom bass drum. It always sounded different (in a bad way) than anything else I had. I never really liked it and actually preferred the sound of other kicks.

An argument could be made that the Pearl sound copies other brands, especially with snare drums. I have a small collection of sensitones. Many are copies of other brands: Ludwig Acrolite, Supraphonic, Black Beauty.

 

[Bozozoid]

Going through every single reply here under the microscope I AM putting a puzzle together and it all confirms my personal thoughts. Whew! I'm not crazy after all.

 

[doggyd69b]

Gretsch has a sound.

Ludwig has a sound.

Not that I know how all kits sound, (especially Sonor) but these two are the only ones I can think of that have a clearly identifiable sound.

It's a great question, but IMO the Pearl tone is not unique. I don't think I could pick it out.

Snares have a distinctive tone but toms? bass drum?? I don't think anyone can tell you what drum is what in a blind test (and without using known music because of course if you know what certain drummer used then you would be biased). And not only that, the test would have to be live because we know that microphones and the recording process change a lot how a drum sounds.

 

[doggyd69b]

I don’t think any drums have a sound without someone playing them. Some characteristics, yes, but Sid Vicious and Dave Hope from Kansas used P basses through SVTs and don’t sound alike, and neither do Peter Criss and Omar Hakim.

Right so the tests would have to go something like one drum at a time, tuned to the exact same pitch, using the same heads, and the same stand being hit by the same person with the same stick. Then the only difference (aside from the human factor) would be the drums themselves. At that point NO ONE would be able to tell which is which on a blind test.

 

[doggyd69b]

After all these years I thought Gadd played a Ludwig kit on that album because there’s a picture of him with some Ludwig’s on the back. My world is askew.

Why isn't anybody talking about all the effects that producers add to albums??
Phil Collins used open toms but they didn't sound like that live. They had quite a bit of reverb added and other things. At that point, how can you tell what drums he was playing (without knowing the brand)?

 

[Larry]

I'd be willing to state that if blindfolded, I could probably pick out the Ludwig and the Gretsch, but not any other brand. I might not even be able to do that, but if there's any drums that I could pick out blindfolded, it would be Gretsch and Ludwig.

 

[Bozozoid]

Now that I've read all of the replies the better question may have been is there a Pearl (characteristic.)

 

[cbphoto]

The Ludwig and Gretsch guys go for a specific sound; they only think inside the box. Us Tama players know we can get any sound we want or need from our kits. Who knows what the Guru players are trying to achieve.

Honestly, we're discussing the sound of toms, yes? 'cuz everyone knows a single snare drum can elicit a myriad of sound simply by changing heads, tuning, hoops and snappies. Same with bass drums: remove a head, stuff it with foam, play it empty with only a felt strip, etc.; so many options. That leaves us with the toms.

When recording, a fully resonant set of toms muddies up the kit, but they sure sound wonderful when solo'd. Given all the choices in heads, I doubt there's an objective way to discern a drum brand based on the sound of the toms.

I do think players gravitate towards a specific sound, though. If you listen to the recordings of all the various drum kits and players on the Buddy Rich Tribute album, there are certain sounds that are identifiable by player not drum brand.

 

[doggyd69b]

I'd be willing to state that if blindfolded, I could probably pick out the Ludwig and the Gretsch, but not any other brand. I might not even be able to do that, but if there's any drums that I could pick out blindfolded, it would be Gretsch and Ludwig.

I believe you might have a 50-50 chance if you know the drums are Ludwig and Gretsch, but if you were asked to blindly test other (say high end brand) I don't think you would be that successful.

 

[Larry]

I believe you might have a 50-50 chance if you know the drums are Ludwig and Gretsch, but if you were asked to blindly test other (say high end brand) I don't think you would be that successful.

You're right I probably can't do it. The Gretsch kit would have to be tuned high and the Ludwig would have to be tuned medium low for me to pick it out. I don't think I could identify Gretsch if it were tuned low, or the Ludwig tuned high.

THAT would make a great thread if someone owned both Ludwig and Gretsch as well as some other brands, recorded them flat, and posted a few drum samples for the purpose of making a game to see who, if anyone, could "name the brand"

I'd pay someone as much a 5 dollars for that thread lol

And Chris, owning Gurus means that everyone else is trying to achieve MY sound. I don't need to achieve anything, I already did. All the rest of you must do the achievement thing ha ha.

I really don't mean that, but it sure was fun to say!

 

[Winston_Wolf]

I think we "know" a particular sound is a certain brand only if it is tuned to and played like our preconceived notion of how that drum is supposed to sound. Meaty and tubby? Sure, that's a Ludwig. A shorter, brighter "bonk?" Yeah, that's a Gretsch.

But in reality, I think you can get sounds like that out of (most) any drum if that's the sound you're aiming for, and conversely someone could take a Ludwig or Gretsch kit and tune it quite differently and get a very atypical sound.

As just one example from someone already mentioned; Phil Collins. Do his drums really sound like Gretsch? Like, 100% "oh yeah, that's a Gretsch!"? I'm sure some of you might be thinking "yeah, but Phil has concert toms..." And you're right, but then does that mean that "the" Gretsch sound is actually...a bottom head?

 

[jda]

Yea why not ; the crack is a little relieved without the bottom head but still (Gretsch sound) could be discerned at the Top head/rim. A little bit just less of. You're not getting the (fool/full..) combustion of two heads..still... a little crack on top

Saying different all make drums are indiscernible is like saying all autos being they have four wheels and a windshield are . Even if you ride blindfolded in the back seat brands -some brands- are discernible. Certainly they are from behind the wheel
Just gotta be sensitive to such things

One thing in common with most all are.... Remo (or similar heads..
Then steel hoops.. then it gets into differences.

 

[GretschedHive]

This series of blind tests from Drumeo have me pretty convinced that the number of people who could accurately guess a given brand is very, very small. I have no doubt there are some who could do so, but there are just so many variables...

 

[jda]

it's also hard to discern from a distance say 500 ft or so.
Or on some heavily produced records

Reality is in ownership we are closer and Use all senses
and to his or her credit even a blind man knows what he or she likes

there's feel, there's shock what type and how much, thru the hands arms and feet, there's ears

Instead of a blind test yt boys should try a deaf (heavy ear muffs) test going just by hand/arm feel of rim shot (hoop test) , stick feel on cymbal (alloy densities) , or drum stick (wood) type
but I'm all for not judging a book by it's cover

 

[Winston_Wolf]

Yea why not ; the crack is a little relieved without the bottom head but still (Gretsch sound) could be discerned at the Top head/rim. A little bit just less of. You're not getting the (fool/full..) combustion of two heads..still... a little crack on top

Saying different all make drums are indiscernible is like saying all autos being they have four wheels and a windshield are . Even if you ride blindfolded in the back seat brands -some brands- are discernible. Certainly they are from behind the wheel
Just gotta be sensitive to such things

One thing in common with most all are.... Remo (or similar heads..
Then steel hoops.. then it gets into differences.

I'm not saying there aren't any differences, I'm saying that without knowing what brands you are listening to it's unlikely you'd be able to correctly guess a brand out of thin air.

 

[jda]

I'm not saying there aren't any differences, I'm saying that without knowing what brands you are listening to it's unlikely you'd be able to correctly guess a brand out of thin air.

if you're a jazzer and you've listened to endless hours of Tony Elvin Art Max (in addition to owning the drums)
it's clear where and what is coming from what in addition to who how where and when.

On those raw stripped down room recordings drums really can't or don't hide
you can get faked out sometimes but the assumptions are usually correct

we're/I'm not talking /Journey/Boston/ Foreigner/ or even Foghat/ lps

ps. on some of the old Jazz Lps Cds you can guess pretty accurately (knowing the year it was recorded) whether "they are 3 ply BK or 6 ply Jaspers".. .; )
also whether 'wood or brass' 4157 or 4160 - snare- now that's some real trickery ; )
listen for example to Love Supreme and guess the snare "material"..
So on the old Jazz (and the rawer blues and soul) albums yes

 

[RobertM]

I'd be willing to state that if blindfolded, I could probably pick out the Ludwig and the Gretsch, but not any other brand. I might not even be able to do that, but if there's any drums that I could pick out blindfolded, it would be Gretsch and Ludwig.

But how much of that speculation is baby boomer bias? Boomers grew up being exposed to almost nothing but Gretsch and Ludwig what with jazz and British Invasion. Those of us Gen Xers arguably grew up with way more drum diversity: we heard Tama, Yamaha, Pearl, as well as Ludwig and Gretsch. And honestly, Yamaha, Pearl, and Tama dominated popular music for Xers and up more than what Boomers experienced.

 

[Neal Pert]

I've done the thing people are describing-- I've owned a Gretsch and a 3 ply Ludwig, same sizes, same single ply coated heads. I'd guess that in person in those conditions I could tell those kits apart 100/100 times.

BTW, we're talking VINTAGE Ludwig.

That said, I've heard plenty of vintage Ludwigs with pinstripes and tuned poorly, and in those situations I'd say it would be tough.

 

[Larry]

But how much of that speculation is baby boomer bias? Boomers grew up being exposed to almost nothing but Gretsch and Ludwig what with jazz and British Invasion. Those of us Gen Xers arguably grew up with way more drum diversity: we heard Tama, Yamaha, Pearl, as well as Ludwig and Gretsch. And honestly, Yamaha, Pearl, and Tama dominated popular music for Xers and up more than what Boomers experienced.

Yea, I can't escape my biases. I could do it if the heads were coated Ambassadors over clear Ambassadors, with the Gretsch tuned jazzier and the Ludwig tuned rockier.

Only then do I think I could pick them out. Which is a very tiny percentage of the possible tone combinations with different heads and tunings. I don't think I could discern any make of drums with say Evans hydraulic heads for instance. They would have to be coated Ambassadors.

 

[jda]

Boomers grew up being exposed to almost nothing but Gretsch and Ludwig

(boomers) heard seen or owned) Gretsch, Ludwig Slingerland Rogers Premier Sonor maybe some Leedy and others (that didn't survive (Way) into the 60s)

Those of us Gen Xers arguably grew up with way more drum diversity

now watch yourself here. Imitation (Mij mostly Pearl but some Tama maybe Yamaha (maybe not Yamaha))
Imitation/ derivative is not diversity. It's a blurring. A no-where (sound) (and visual) land

:Tho mostly I agree with your statement - good : )