Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made today?

Ransan

Senior Member
Um . .ok. . . no.

First, in the video they’re not actually playing what you’re hearing, almost certainly including the instruments. There’s no way a band would consider dragging the drums from some recording studio to a river for a film shoot.

Second, the sound you’re hearing will have been substantially altered in the mixing process.

Sorry to rain on the parade.

Pete
My apologies for not clarifying.
Not raining on my parade - you forgot to mention that the piano was no where near the deck.

My intent was to provide
1. Provide a vintage audio filing of a crash for sound reference
2. Share the observation of cymbal in that fashion
🙂
 
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Peedy

Senior Member
My apologies for not clarifying.
Not raining on my parade - you forgot to mention that the piano was no where near the deck.

My intent was to provide
1. Provide a vintage audio filing of a crash for sound reference
2. Share the observation of cymbal in that fashion
🙂
Fair enough. I leave details out all the time. That’s why they invented the edit button, which I use often.

Edit - I totally thought that song was written by Isidore Phineas Freely. My bad.

Edit II - plus even I’M wrong sometimes!
 
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Mongrel

Silver Member
Um . .ok. . . wait. I hope you’re not talking about those cymbals.

First, in the video they’re not actually playing what you’re hearing, almost certainly including the instruments. There’s no way a band would consider dragging the drums from some recording studio to a river for a film shoot.

Second, the sound you’re hearing will have been substantially altered in the mixing process. It’s basically impossible to say you’ll buy any cymbals from a song so they’ll sound that way on your kit.

Sorry to rain on the parade.

Pete
While I agree with the first part.....

Not so sure how "substantially altered" the cymbal sound would be on a tune like that especially being recorded in 1970. In 2019 absolutely have to take into consideration the possibility of complete manipulation of everything we hear. But back then? I mean we can clearly hear Bonhams Paistes in the early Led Zep albums recorded around that time.

I have no idea what the cymbal sounds like on "Yellow River though. About 9 seconds of that was all I could take....lol
 

Ransan

Senior Member
All I am saying is we hear audio files all the time to discern what we like for example all the very well mixed YouTube examples that are available (by the way new HHXs are primo). I Wasn’t alive in the 70s so my reliance has been heavily on recordings. My first drumset came with a stamped pair of Avedis 13” hats that sounded bitter and choked open was just like hitting two dead cookie sheets - maybe for jazz?
To me vintages in their current state are drier, some are killer if you find the right one, but that’s up to you.

We can’t be this literal on music vids especially on music video from 1970.

We better be careful, for the trap set, (specifically the enormous bass drum, and splashing milk coming out of the snare hit) from Hall and Oates “Out of Touch” music video might have something to say about this🤭

Dpk $650 for a new pro pack of Avedis are a good price for startups. Vintage are acquired tastes, can be costly and go by weight as logos are gone. Make sure you know somewhat about the stamp IDs or things such as deals and price points can get sideways quick.
 
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Old Dog new Cans

Senior Member
I liked the price of the vintage cymbals I now own. Buying the same cymbals today would have cost me at least $600 more than what I paid for the used vintage. Maybe that's why we think they sound better. I have a lot of new stuff that I think sound great too. 🤷‍♂️
 

vyacheslav

Senior Member
Something else to consider when comparing "old" Zildjians with new ones....................

Zildjian doesn't do ANY hand hammering anymore. They haven't since the early 80's. I've heard this from several reputable people who would have the inside knowledge that I know and trust.

Apparently, OSHA came in in the early 80's and determined that hand hammering cymbals was an occupational hazard (repeated hammering could cause long term hand injuries). OSHA made them stop hand hammering. Although the A. line was using fully automated hammering/shaping by that time, the K's were still being hand hammered (I believe those were Zildjian's only two product lines at the time). That's why the early to mid-80's K's were produced in Canada (in the New Brunswick (now Sabian) factory). They moved production there to get around the OSHA mandate (OSHA doesn't have any jurisdiction outside the USA). Incidentally, because of this, no other cymbal companies were affected by this OSHA mandate because Zildjian is the only USA based cymbal company (at least major cymbal company).

Zildjian had to spend millions of dollars on research and on machines that replicated hand hammering. When they finally got it right (or close enough), they started producing the K's back in the USA, with the Zildjian word mark stamped on the bottom, as opposed to the K logo on the top and bottom. To this day, the OSHA mandate is still in effect, so even the K Constantinople lines are all 100% machine hammered. That's why Sabian really plays up the HH (Hand Hammered)/Artisan series.

Just something to think about. In my opinion, my favorite era of Zildjian's (as far as the A's are concerned) are from the "Block Ink Stamp" Era, which was from 1983-1992/3. Sometime in 1993, they started to put the "Avedis" word mark next to the "Zildjian" word mark on the top of the cymbal, and in 1994 they started adding the cursive "A" next to the model designation and changed the font slightly. They also started adding the ID number to the stamp in 1994 (which ironically, as far as the Zildjian "Code" goes, 94 = ID. Ironic)!
 
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