Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made today?

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Re: Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made to

Hey Bermuda. They quite literally did lose the recipe. Traditionally, the formula was passed down to the oldest son in the Zildjian family. However, Avedis III passed it on to both Armand and his younger brother, Robert. This led to a lot of fighting amongst them, and they broke apart. Armand kept Zildjian, and Robert started Sabian Cymbals (Sabian = Sally+Andy+Billy+zildjIAN, the names of his three children), running from the Canadian factory that had, until that point, created 40% of all Zildjian K cymbals. Initially both the Zildjian K line and the Sabian HH line both used the same formula (since they both legally had permission to use it, having both inherited it), but as the companies competed, they both tweaked their formula slightly, and thus "lost the recipe."

I thinks thats Sally, BIlly Andy
 
T

TheArchitect

Guest
Re: Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made to

Hey Bermuda. They quite literally did lose the recipe. Traditionally, the formula was passed down to the oldest son in the Zildjian family. However, Avedis III passed it on to both Armand and his younger brother, Robert. This led to a lot of fighting amongst them, and they broke apart. Armand kept Zildjian, and Robert started Sabian Cymbals (Sabian = Sally+Andy+Billy+zildjIAN, the names of his three children), running from the Canadian factory that had, until that point, created 40% of all Zildjian K cymbals. Initially both the Zildjian K line and the Sabian HH line both used the same formula (since they both legally had permission to use it, having both inherited it), but as the companies competed, they both tweaked their formula slightly, and thus "lost the recipe."
Whats your source on the formula change?
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Re: Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made to

Hey Bermuda. They quite literally did lose the recipe. Traditionally, the formula was passed down to the oldest son in the Zildjian family. However, Avedis III passed it on to both Armand and his younger brother, Robert. This led to a lot of fighting amongst them, and they broke apart. Armand kept Zildjian, and Robert started Sabian Cymbals (Sabian = Sally+Andy+Billy+zildjIAN, the names of his three children), running from the Canadian factory that had, until that point, created 40% of all Zildjian K cymbals. Initially both the Zildjian K line and the Sabian HH line both used the same formula (since they both legally had permission to use it, having both inherited it), but as the companies competed, they both tweaked their formula slightly, and thus "lost the recipe."

I thinks thats Sally, BIlly Andy

SABIAN is a 'team'... a 'family', with many members - a growing number with over 20+ years experience - absolute masters of their craft. Even the 'SABIAN' name is family, comprised of the first two letters from the names of each of Bob's three children - SA (Sally), BI (Billy), AN (Andy). Today, Andy is the president of SABIAN, with Bob serving as chairman. And those rings appearing in the SABIAN logo? They represent the grooves cut into the surface of a cymbal.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Re: Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made to

And those rings appearing in the SABIAN logo? They represent the grooves cut into the surface of a cymbal.
Why do they need to represent the grooves of a cymbal on a cymbal? I've never thought it looked nice and seems redundant (except on whatever schwagg they make i.e., towels, keychains, t-shirts).

Love the cymbals, but the logo? Not so much.
 

michaelg

Member
Good time to bump this thread in light of the 2013 redesigns.
Anyone feel the new ones sound a bit zingy and harsh ?
 

Peedy

Senior Member
Although MY preference is for really old Zildjians, my #1 car playlist is 90s / 00s alt and rock. Love the music and I'm betting a bunch of it was recorded with Zildjians from those two decades so. . .
 

TJK

Well-known member
It’s not that you can’t find newer ones that sound good, I just think the 70s ones sound consistently good. The 14 new beats of that era especially
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
Good time to bump this thread in light of the 2013 redesigns.
Anyone feel the new ones sound a bit zingy and harsh ?
Do you think maybe the series matters? The As might have a little ring to them but I've found all of the newer K series anything but harsh.
 

makinao

Silver Member
It’s not that you can’t find newer ones that sound good, I just think the 70s ones sound consistently good. The 14 new beats of that era especially
Hmmmmm ... my new beats were from the 70s, and I played more than a few from the same period in backlines and from my colleagues. IMHO weights and sounds were not that consistent. It took a couple of years to find a pair with the weight ratio I really liked (782 gms top, 1223 bottom). I actually find the post-2013 models more consistent. For example, I got a 18” thin crash in late 2013 and chose from about 4 in the store. The differences were very small.
 
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Mongrel

Silver Member
No.....the 2013s are not your father's A's

Totally different beast....

Refined
Mature
Play like butter...sound like gold...

I will often leave my Ks home and bring my redesigns out.
 
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Lennytoons

Senior Member
If you want the Zildjian A sound from the sixties try the Sabian AA series, I have a 20" ride and 14" hats that have the perfect 60's sound. I also have a pair of Zildjian 14" hats from the 60's that are very light...sound fantastic in all situations. The 20" A ride I have from the 60's is very heavy and it sounds....very heavy...loud, lots of overtones and will cut through anything.
 

TJK

Well-known member
No.....the 2013s are not your father's A's

Totally different beast....




Refined
Mature
Play like butter...sound like gold...

I will often leave my Ks home and bring my redesigns out.
[/QUOT


Awesome I will have to check them out
 

Peedy

Senior Member
IMHO weights and sounds were not that consistent. It took a couple of years to find a pair with the weight ratio I really liked (782 gms top, 1223 bottom). I actually find the post-2013 models more consistent.
If you want the Zildjian A sound from the sixties try the Sabian AA series, I have a 20" ride and 14" hats that have the perfect 60's sound. I also have a pair of Zildjian 14" hats from the 60's that are very light...sound fantastic in all situations. The 20" A ride I have from the 60's is very heavy and it sounds....very heavy...loud, lots of overtones and will cut through anything.
You guys are both totally right and yet wrong for one simple reason, up until the 1980s Zildjian made all of their cymbals under just one stamp. No Z series. No A series. No K series (till about 1975). No S series etc etc. The stamps were all the same. Their weights, shapes, hammering, thickness variations and grooves set them apart and made them appropriate for one type of music or another. You the drummer got to the music store and decided what you needed to fit your music.

So today people look at vintage Zildjians and wonder why their quality control was so bad because one set of NBs is a light disco set while another belongs with a metal player and everything in between. That's the way they were supposed to be.

Pete

edit - makinao, I totally feel your NB pain. Took me a while to lay hands on my current 785/1250 set of NBs.
 
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CommanderRoss

Silver Member
Re: Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made to



That's true, and cymbal companies have expanded their sound palette accordingly with new lines. BUT, an A should remain an A.

If that sound is no longer relevant, Zildjian should discontinue it. But they shouldn't change it and continue to call it an A.

Bermuda
Paiste has a "#1" that they match all those from the production line to. If they don't sound the same, back in the fire it goes. That way, a Signature will always sound like a Signature. Never a "sort-of Signature".
 

gdmoore28

Gold Member
Am I the only one who adores the "redesigned" Zildjian As and Ks? I won't go so far as saying that they sound superior to my 1980s As and Ks, but they certainly sound different, and those differences sound very, very good to my aged ears. I own only one of the redesigned cymbals (a K Dark crash), but that rascal does stand out from the rest with its broader tonal spread. And this is a characteristic that I hear in all the new Zildjians, from rides (I love that freakin' K Sweet Ride) to hats to crashes. I don't know what Z redesigned (thinner? hammering?), but I'm all on board with it. (I've noticed, too, that the cymbals are more consistent in sound from one to the other.)

GeeDeeEmm
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Is it true that 70's and 80's zildjian cymbals sound better than the ones made today?
All things considered, I'd say no. I've had a lot of clangy, clunky older Zildjians - new ones, not so much.


Am I the only one who adores the "redesigned" Zildjian As and Ks?.....
IMO, they're some of the best they've made.

Not a blanket, overall statement, but I like a lot of the newer Zildjians.
 
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