Is It The Player or The Cymbal?

harryconway

Platinum Member
You sorta have to have a decent cymbal to start with. The old adage "you can't make a purse out of a pigs ear" applies. I got some Camber cymbals in my garage that no matter who the player ...... they're plain old crap-tastic cymbals. Cool for sampling and/or using in an electro/industrial context, but that's about it. Playing jazz on.😂
 

prokofi5

Junior Member
I would guess mostly cymbal and part player, but honestly, in videos like this, I'd say the production value has a pretty significant impact as well. Just this year I've returned two cymbals that sounded great in pro quality drum shop recordings, but sounded entirely different and really rough when I got them. If I have to shop online I actually prefer cellphone samples to get a better idea of how they sound in person.
 

Bozozoid

Well-known member
Can a great drummer make an 18" thin cracked Beverly ride sound good?...better than I could but I'd still be wondering what that inspiring player would sound like playing a 22"constantinople medium thin...WOW.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
I was more specifically asking about that cymbal it sounded great for jazz in video, but guy doing demo is a great player and it's a very professional video.

Didn't watch, but the answer is: it's both. The cymbal has fixed properties, but the player works the cymbal to explore all of its nuances.

The stick weight and tip material, and the miking play a part as well.
 

brushes

Well-known member
I was more specifically asking about that cymbal it sounded great for jazz in video, but guy doing demo is a great player and it's a very professional video.
A jazzride will sound good when a jazzdrummer plays it. It will sound even better, if a great jazzdrummer plays it.

Take any recording of an A Custom Sweet Ride (traditional finish) and listen to it. Then listen to Peter Erskine, how he plays it. Very different sound and impossible to recreate that.

Anyway, Bosporus Rides are very good jazzrides. But ride A will sound different than ride B, so, all those demos should be consumed carefully. They give you an idea of how it can sound more or less in certain settings/recordings. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
I was more specifically asking about that cymbal it sounded great for jazz in video, but guy doing demo is a great player and it's a very professional video.
Well ..... at $362 ..... it better be a pretty darn nice sounding cymbal. But Memphis does know how to put out good video's. And they seem to have no short supply of talent, either. I rely on their site all the time, when I want to know about a certain type of cymbal. They're pretty key on a lot of my cymbal purchases. Most recently, my purchases of the Sabian Vanguard line.
 

Soulfinger

Senior Member
I always liked this story I picked up on one of the drum forums:
A guy goes to a drum shop in NY and asks if they have a Zildjian Dark Complex Ride, the one Bill Stewart helped design. The owner says no, they sold their last one a week ago. Then someone starts playing a cymbal in the show room around the corner and the owner says: "That´s funny, that sounds like a Dark Complex - seems like we do have another one." They go to check and it´s Bill Stewart - playing an A Custom Ping Ride.
The player and his/her touch are very important, ´s what I´m trying to say.
 

iCe

Senior Member
Didn't watch, but the answer is: it's both. The cymbal has fixed properties, but the player works the cymbal to explore all of its nuances.

The stick weight and tip material, and the miking play a part as well.
I agree. Wouldn't be the first time i saw/heard a video of a dark and trashy cymbal and find myself thinking 'that cymbal is rather pingy'... to spot a few seconds later the drummer is using nylon tips.
Still remember Simon Phillips saying somewhere in a video that you can buy his exact same drums, cymbals, heads, sticks etc. and still sound different. I think that's what makes every musician unique. We all bring our own personalty and sound when we play.
 

CommanderRoss

Silver Member
the answer is: both. The cymbal has fixed properties, but the player works the cymbal to explore all of its nuances.
The stick weight and tip material, and the miking play a part as well.
One of the reasons I'm a nylon tip player is this. I want the stick definition to come out & I feel wood tips just don't do that for me.


You sorta have to have a decent cymbal to start with. I got some Camber cymbals in my garage that no matter who the player....they're plain old crap-tastic cymbals.
I have a set of red Avanti cymbals that fit this category. One half of the 14" hats became a 13" Roctagon-shaped lampshade, the hat bottom is now an efx spiral stack & the 16 & 18" has yet to be decided on.
I'd never play them at a gig. They just don't do it.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
I dunno. I’ve heard some some pretty crappy playing on beautiful gear 😉
HEY....I patented that style...

but I think it is more the player and the stick choice. Case in point: I have had my friend play my rock ride, and that cymbal sounds completely different when he plays it than when I do. He plays more "off" of the drums, and i play more "through". We both play with relatively the same amount of power, but that decision about what happens after the stroke makes a lot of difference. When he plays that ride, it is less pingy and more shimmery than when I do. This was using the same sticks b/c he asked to borrow mine that time

and regarding sticks, ?i normally use Vic Firth 3A's, which give a pretty high pitched dry ping off of that cymbal, but when I use my Pro Mark 808W Shirakshi Oak sticks, it is a darker "wetter" ping. 3A has a "gumdrop" bead and is wider at the shoulder taper; the 808 has more of an acorn shape, and is thinner at the shoulder taper
 
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