The Grand Master Buddy Rich

Lots of good points. I won't regurgitate all of the points but only a few to add to them.

First, the idea that any of the greats mentioned couldn't do a specific thing in a different era or genre is flawed thinking. Any of these drummers, given the interest or need to play a different style or genre would have assuredly worked on the skills and techniques needed.

Second, I usually don't go for greatest discussions. Too many variables and if you asked everyone the criteria for their proclamation I guarantee it would vary widely. It would be fun to develop a real list or criteria to then judge them on. Until then, no proclamation of greatest. One of the greats or my favorite, sure thing.

Third I agree with Tex, there can be a greatest given proper criteria.

Fourth, too many folks fail to properly value those that did it first compared to those that copied or added to. The idea that the Beach Boys or the Beatles or not great because people copy them with relative ease, but only accurate to a reasonable degree. They thought this stuff up and perfected without anyone to copy.

Finally I agree with a few that have given solid criteria about Buddy's playing that makes them think he is the greatest. To those that mention people like Mangini, sorry, but see my fourth point.
 
Last edited:
TK-421 said:
Just for the record, my....... favorite drummers are Vinnie Colaiuta ...........
Click to expand...

Without a doubt the most "complete" drummer I've ever seen. He's convincing in any genre he's placed in. From rock, to pop, to jazz, to fusion, to metal. He plays it like he belongs. Like it's all he plays.
I think Vinnie's overall skill set, musical ability and the tastefulness to apply it, covers more ground than any other drummer I've laid eyes on. He was definitely an innovator.

If there really was a "best" then I'd vote Vinnie to top my list too. At least in terms of pure drumming ability. But despite his immeasurable musical talent, innovation, ability and expression, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, he still doesn't stand as tall. Not in the court of wider public opinion. Why that is, may be a mystery. But so is the rest of the general public psyche at times I guess.
 
If we include fame and influence in the definition of “great,” then yeah I’ll call him the greatest. His name is synonymous with drums and is instantly recognizable by people who can’t even spell MUSIC. He’s influenced more drummers to pick up sticks than anyone other than perhaps Ringo. Like Babe Ruth, he was heads and shoulders better at his profession than almost all of his contemporaries. Few were in the same zip code. Good thing character isn’t a trait used to define greatness though. Like Ali, Buddy was an ass. We’re sadly a society that equates decency with fame. Best player? Hardly, for the reasons many have cited in this thread. Several drummers by 2018 have surpassed his musicality on a drum kit.
 
Gosh the thread is still going I thought it was settled Buddy was the greatest-yep Buddy Guy the Greatest Blues Guitarist. So it's settled. I'd like to see Chick Webb play-just listening to some sound tracks and this one video https://vimeo.com/66999761. can't really reflect this drum giant.
 
I've gotten to play with a lot of wonderful drummers, including Roach, Shaughnessy, Blakey, and quite often Louie Bellson. Early on, I discovered that top-line drummers produced a higher energy, even when playing softly. Over time, I came to accept this as a power derived from optimum coordination of man and instruments. You could watch Roach for just a few seconds and discern little if any, wasted energy. Then when he tacked on that absurdly high musicianship, you could feel a charge up your back.

That said, I never experienced anything like the voltage received from Buddy. It was on a different level and physically affected you. Comparatively, my first experience with Louie was very uplifting, remarkable in fact. But, my first time with Buddy was jarring. For most of set one, I could barely see notes for the involuntary purple dots. Then at break, I immediately ran for the bathroom, nor am I the only horn player to know that transformation. As for this greatness thing, I defer to other drummers. Roach and Rufus Jones were the only high enders I ever heard not speak of Buddy with something bordering on reverence. Jo Jones for example, used to make a wide path for him. So, who am I to disagree?
 
All I can say is that if Buddy Rich used sticks like the Vic Firth signature model he is definitely one of the strongest drummers ever. To be able to do all the stuff he did with those sticks (heavy / long) he must be an exceptionally strong drummer.
 
Mattsdad said:
I've gotten to play with a lot of wonderful drummers, including Roach, Shaughnessy, Blakey, and quite often Louie Bellson. Early on, I discovered that top-line drummers produced a higher energy, even when playing softly. Over time, I came to accept this as a power derived from optimum coordination of man and instruments. You could watch Roach for just a few seconds and discern little if any, wasted energy. Then when he tacked on that absurdly high musicianship, you could feel a charge up your back.

That said, I never experienced anything like the voltage received from Buddy. It was on a different level and physically affected you. Comparatively, my first experience with Louie was very uplifting, remarkable in fact. But, my first time with Buddy was jarring. For most of set one, I could barely see notes for the involuntary purple dots. Then at break, I immediately ran for the bathroom, nor am I the only horn player to know that transformation. As for this greatness thing, I defer to other drummers. Roach and Rufus Jones were the only high enders I ever heard not speak of Buddy with something bordering on reverence. Jo Jones for example, used to make a wide path for him. So, who am I to disagree?
Click to expand...


Very interesting, and what´s your real name?

Best regards!
 
Very interesting to say the least!!! Wow, what real world experience....with the gods of our instrument. Your input it truly appreciated Mattsdad, thank you.
 
Buddy during his time was on a different level. He couldn't keep up with today Portnoys or Manginis though. He was leaps and bounds ahead back then, but now there is a bunch of guys on a level above him.
 
Yup, another vote for Portnoy. Buddy was great and all, but I feel like I never a heard a single quad and very little double bass except for that one audio file.

Gosh, I thought one was supposed to be less of a d#$& after a vacation, mine obviously didn't work, sure was nice tho...I gotta move to Florida
 
Buddy was much more of a musician that any modern drummer. All of those great big band/ big jazz band (there is a difference) jazz drummers were. In those genres the current contemporary jazz drummers still are.

Listen to old Blue Note, Pablo, and other classic jazz recordings. Those guys are at a different level. Bellson, Krupa, Roach, Morello, Elvin Jones. Music in an ensemble was and is a conversation with jazz. Not so much rock. Those dudes were musicians blending their instrument into the mix. Give a listen you'll hear it. Densmore was a jazz drummer before he started playing with The Doors. He's an incredible drummer. Same thing with Ginger Baker.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Buddy was much more of a musician that any modern drummer.
Click to expand...

Have you listened to how Simon Phillips and Gavin Harrison manage to create the perfect drum part to complement whatever genre they’re playing? How adept was Buddy outside of the big band genre? Buddy had great hands. Today’s greats have great hands AND feet. Buddy would be lost trying to replicate some of the independence mastery that Thomas Lang demonstrates.
 
steadypocket said:
..the independence mastery that Thomas Lang demonstrates..
Click to expand...


Just too bad that he almost never plays something that shows some musical taste..

To me a typical example of a guy that studied hours and hours all the possible tricks, but completely fails to actually being able to play something that is also nice to listen to..
 
You said t before I got the chance!!!

The modern mentality is all about technical tricks and not about creating a sound within an ensemble. The folks coming out of the jazz realm playing with small and large jazz ensembles know how to do it; others pass off intricate tricks and licks as greatness, ignoring complimenting the ensemble sound. They just don't get it.

Not sure who it was - one of the old greats from 50's/60's 70's - said to become a great drummer you must practice playing songs and pieces with a band and learn how to play with other musicians. It's a musical conversation on stage.


oldskoolsoul said:
Just too bad that he almost never plays something that shows some musical taste..

To me a typical example of a guy that studied hours and hours all the possible tricks, but completely fails to actually being able to play something that is also nice to listen to..
Click to expand...
 
And yes Buddy was very adept outside of the big band genre: he played with small jazz trios/quartets etc. as well as larger jazz bands and big bands. What other genres were there at the time? And, there isn't anything harder to play a kit with than those genres.
 
All that big band and jazz stuff he played was 5 measures of hi hat and then an accented snare on 4. he was only an amazing soloist and thats it. AND because he was a self marketing whore, we only saw him on every talk show and Carson every week. im sure his contemporaries at the time, Roach, Bellson and those guys could hang with their bands too, buddy was only special as a soloist.
I never get tired of watching videos of his solos, i dont even understand what hes doing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top