Is Buddy Rich REALLY the greatest drummer of all time?

no talent

Senior Member
I guess "no-talent" knows more than Peart, Weckl, Bonham, Krupa, etc. His description of jazz says he either hasn't listened or doesn't know how to listen to it.
22 replies since joining in 2010 and this is what you choose to say?i dont know how to listen to German Death Metal either, its called an opinion.

This is the kind of crap that should get people banned from the site. I thought this wasn't supposed to be the kind of forum where people can say any old garbage.
I think if you go far enough East, you will find a country which values your type of thinking. Sounds like you will fit right in, no one there is allowed to express an opinion either. BTW, i personally hate Jazz and Big Band..so what?
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
i personally hate Jazz and Big Band..so what?
I couldn't care less what you like or don't like. And your comments here, Mr. Five Measures Of Hihat, demonstrate that you know NOTHING about music, so your opinions about it are completely worthless. They're not even opinions, they're feelings.

This is a site where actual musicians come to talk about musician things, and where students come to learn. You can't say anything you want and not get corrected.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
He picked up our tab at Little Tony's Pizzeria on Ventura Blvd in Woodland Hills (LA). It was around 1972 or '73 as I recall. We were all teenagers and were acquainted with him through one of our friends who's dad wrote soundtracks for many TV shows back then (we went to a Hawaii Five-0 soundtrack taping he wrote) and also arranged music for many commercials (Budweiser). He was very nice to us and a lot of fun. He was anything but an ass.

That's more or less the crux of why I started this thread. It's the "of all time" part. I was never questioning Buddy's greatness, just whether he's ever been surpassed after all these years.

But I agree with some of the responders, in that from everything I've read and heard, it seems that he could be a real ass in person. Does that diminish his drumming skills? No, of course not. But it does seem to tarnish his legacy to some degree.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Listen to Buddy from 30's 40's 50's playing in small ensembles with the likes of Charlie Parker, or some of his studio session gigs. Five measures of hi-hat wouldn't cut it with those dudes. He was a fantastic player with a great ear for what the rest of musicians were doing around him.

22 replies since joining in 2010 and this is what you choose to say?i dont know how to listen to German Death Metal either, its called an opinion.



I think if you go far enough East, you will find a country which values your type of thinking. Sounds like you will fit right in, no one there is allowed to express an opinion either. BTW, i personally hate Jazz and Big Band..so what?
 

TK-421

Senior Member
He picked up our tab at Little Tony's Pizzeria on Ventura Blvd in Woodland Hills (LA). It was around 1972 or '73 as I recall. We were all teenagers and were acquainted with him through one of our friends who's dad wrote soundtracks for many TV shows back then (we went to a Hawaii Five-0 soundtrack taping he wrote) and also arranged music for many commercials (Budweiser). He was very nice to us and a lot of fun. He was anything but an ass.
That was nice of him. Clearly he wasn't an ass 24/7; I don't think anyone could, as that would be exhausting (and I did say that he could be an ass, not that he was always one).

But when I think of Buddy Rich, the infamous bus tape always comes to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ia95oiS5LE

And to a much lesser degree, this, where he slams country music and anyone who listens to it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h45vnTXbLb4

I'm no fan of country music, but I'd never publicly slam it like that. That's pretty douchey if you ask me.

Listen to Buddy from 30's 40's 50's playing in small ensembles with the likes of Charlie Parker, or some of his studio session gigs. Five measures of hi-hat wouldn't cut it with those dudes. He was a fantastic player with a great ear for what the rest of musicians were doing around him.
Do you have any specific songs or albums to check out? Links would be best.
 
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no talent

Senior Member
I couldn't care less what you like or don't like. And your comments here, Mr. Five Measures Of Hihat, demonstrate that you know NOTHING about music, so your opinions about it are completely worthless. They're not even opinions, they're feelings.

This is a site where actual musicians come to talk about musician things, and where students come to learn. You can't say anything you want and not get corrected.
haha i never said i knew anything about music, i dont know anything about airplanes either but i fly in them, whats your point? I do average 2-3 gigs a wek so i guess people who listen think i know a little something....how often do you play live mr. internet troll?
 

newoldie

Silver Member
Sounds like mine too. Mine once threw a CHAIR at a seventh grader. Actually, he was well-known for throwing chairs in general. o_O
Not to hijack this thread, one that deals with my favorite all time drummer, BR, and IMO who ranks as a god amongst drummers, BUT-- just to share, Push Pulls and Rattlin's descriptions above rang true for me as well. Almost hysterical thinking about our high school band directors.

I had a Jr. High School band director who would throw erasers and chalk at band members who screwed up, he would throw chalk at us percussionists in the back who were giggling all the time. However, when we had him personally for the percussion ensemble, he was completely normal and an excellent teacher.

Then in High School, we had an extreme version of the Jr. High School guy- this band director would spout off insults, intimidate through praise and humiliation, etc. Again, he was excellent, and our orchestra and symphonic bands were ranked amongst the top ones in the state. But he was prone to being almost violent-- one time as a senior, I missed the closing song note on a bass drum beat-- he threw his baton down, marched aggressively through the band members to get to me in the back-- I thought he was going to punch me or god knows what, and I braced myself to punch him first. However, he asked me to meet after school and somehow this became just a non-event then. In those days, you didn't report these close calls to anyone or even your parents just because it wasn't out of the norm (that was "normal"? lol).

I found out 25 years later he was fired from his position due to his "style." Funny, but we all loved the guy, he could be funny as hell and was incredible as a band director and teacher, but he had his semi-violent issues that must have gotten the best of him. His kids were all incredible musicians.

In today's world, the Snowflakes would've neutered him right away or fired him in months. I shudder to think about the quality of teachers today that can't speak/act honestly, but that's a complete other subject to discuss outside the forums.

There could probably be a new post focused on our school drumming/ band directors experiences, maybe all these guys were the same? :)
 

no talent

Senior Member
Then in High School, we had an extreme version of the Jr. High School guy- this band director would spout off insults, intimidate through praise and humiliation, etc. Again, he was excellent, and our orchestra and symphonic bands were ranked amongst the top ones in the state. But he was prone to being almost violent-- one time as a senior, I missed the closing song note on a bass drum beat-- he threw his baton down, marched aggressively through the band members to get to me in the back-- I thought he was going to punch me or god knows what, and I braced myself to punch him first. However, he asked me to meet after school and somehow this became just a non-event then. In those days, you didn't report these close calls to anyone or even your parents just because it wasn't out of the norm (that was "normal"? lol).



There could probably be a new post focused on our school drumming/ band directors experiences, maybe all these guys were the same? :)
I had the opposite in high school, everyone i talk to from concert, jazz and marching band loved the guy. He was funny but somehow he silently demanded and got your respect. i will never forget the time i screwed up but he defended me. a week before a big competition for the concert band, i subbed on timpani for a senior. i had to site read this piece while the band was 100 percent locked into it. i didnt hold a crescendo roll long enough and towards the end and the entire 190 piece orchestra looked back at me and started to make comments. Mr T. ( not that one) spoke up and said btw he is site reading this piece and doing a fine job. never forget that he had my back on that. nicest guy in the world!
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Our director wasn't quite that extreme. He'd throw a baton every once in a while. Knock down a music stand. He could really scream, though. Sometimes he'd make us run the steps in outdoor ampitheatre just outside band room, but that was because we just were not paying attention or talking too much. We all loved him and he taught us a lot about how to set objectives and then work to achieve them. Today's snowflakes couldn't take it and, 30 years from now, they'd be wondering why they're still working at McDonalds.

Not to hijack this thread, one that deals with my favorite all time drummer, BR, and IMO who ranks as a god amongst drummers, BUT-- just to share, Push Pulls and Rattlin's descriptions above rang true for me as well. Almost hysterical thinking about our high school band directors.

I had a Jr. High School band director who would throw erasers and chalk at band members who screwed up, he would throw chalk at us percussionists in the back who were giggling all the time. However, when we had him personally for the percussion ensemble, he was completely normal and an excellent teacher.

Then in High School, we had an extreme version of the Jr. High School guy- this band director would spout off insults, intimidate through praise and humiliation, etc. Again, he was excellent, and our orchestra and symphonic bands were ranked amongst the top ones in the state. But he was prone to being almost violent-- one time as a senior, I missed the closing song note on a bass drum beat-- he threw his baton down, marched aggressively through the band members to get to me in the back-- I thought he was going to punch me or god knows what, and I braced myself to punch him first. However, he asked me to meet after school and somehow this became just a non-event then. In those days, you didn't report these close calls to anyone or even your parents just because it wasn't out of the norm (that was "normal"? lol).

I found out 25 years later he was fired from his position due to his "style." Funny, but we all loved the guy, he could be funny as hell and was incredible as a band director and teacher, but he had his semi-violent issues that must have gotten the best of him. His kids were all incredible musicians.

In today's world, the Snowflakes would've neutered him right away or fired him in months. I shudder to think about the quality of teachers today that can't speak/act honestly, but that's a complete other subject to discuss outside the forums.

There could probably be a new post focused on our school drumming/ band directors experiences, maybe all these guys were the same? :)
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Your high school had a 190 piece orchestra???

I had the opposite in high school, everyone i talk to from concert, jazz and marching band loved the guy. He was funny but somehow he silently demanded and got your respect. i will never forget the time i screwed up but he defended me. a week before a big competition for the concert band, i subbed on timpani for a senior. i had to site read this piece while the band was 100 percent locked into it. i didnt hold a crescendo roll long enough and towards the end and the entire 190 piece orchestra looked back at me and started to make comments. Mr T. ( not that one) spoke up and said btw he is site reading this piece and doing a fine job. never forget that he had my back on that. nicest guy in the world!
 

WallyY

Platinum Member
That's sort of the thing — Rich wasn't a school teacher who needs to be nice.

He was a paying band leader.

If you get hired to play a certain way and then you screw off and bend notes and get sloppy, and then make recordings of when your boss throws a fit because of it, you ought to be left on the side of the road.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
That's sort of the thing — Rich wasn't a school teacher who needs to be nice.

He was a paying band leader.

If you get hired to play a certain way and then you screw off and bend notes and get sloppy, and then make recordings of when your boss throws a fit because of it, you ought to be left on the side of the road.
Yeah, absolutely. Yelling at pros for screwing up is not necessarily unfair. What bugs me is that he talks crap about rock drummers, many of whom were inspired to start drumming by watching Buddy on TV.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
What bugs me is that he talks crap about rock drummers, many of whom were inspired to start drumming by watching Buddy on TV.
Good point.

Maybe I can provide a little insight into Buddy’s rock and roll drummer comment.

My father was a big band drummer and drum teacher. He played drums from the 1920’s to the 1990’s. When the Beatles were on the Ed Sullivan Show in February 1964 I was 14 years old. My father and I watched it together. At that time there were not very many rock drummers around. More importantly you would never see one on TV. Remember the only way you could see someone play rock and roll back then was to go to a concert.

So think about the commonly acceptable style of drumming back then, Krupa, Bellson, Rich, etc. And then watch Ringo play. You will see a great difference in the way Ringo plays compared to the “right” way to play. Ringo broke most of the drumming rules. My father was very critical of Ringo’s style. He was especially critical because he was teaching me the “proper” way to play drums.

Go ahead, watch Buddy play, then watch Ringo play on Ed Sullivan. See how many things you can find that are “wrong” with Ringo’s playing. And watch how Ringo plays a very simple beat. Of course now a days we think of it as “different” and not “wrong”.


.
 

no talent

Senior Member
Your high school had a 190 piece orchestra???
Yes, class LL for our size if i remember correctly. huge marching band too as most of us played both. we won competitions in Newport and Montreal for orchestra and halftime show competition...band trips were the best. The drinking age was 18 in Montreal back then and we never got carded.
 

Hummada

Senior Member
I see so many saints and ignorant people speak up when there are Buddy talks. That is an actual serious comment coming from me. Y'all don't get or understand that he always spoke his mind, and that all the solo stuff he played was a very little part of what made him great. Of course he yelled, got mad, and had a temper. I can take some one you know from your friend/family/work circle and rip them apart from my view of them. You know why? Because I've never met them and I don't know them. I have only seen them yell or be an asshole to someone else for reasons that I have no clue about. How does that sound to you?

Offended these days? No way!

I'm more of a Steve Gadd fan and get into all the big band/jazz drummers that had the ability to let you know that it's "that individual drummer" playing when you hear them on a radio somewhere. If Steve Gadd is playing a simple rock beat with some band I've never heard of, I can immediately tell it's Steve. That's what Buddy was taking about when talking smack about other drummers and I agree.

Of course there are exceptions to that and there are many things that Buddy had a strong opinion on that is complete BS. It's that way with all of us. He just let you know and I like that quality in people that are real in your face because I'm the opposite. I have friends that are the same way-will say whatever comes to mind whether you like it or not. That's a rare thing and see where it pisses people off. Usually I laugh at the people that get butt hurt over those tires of personalities.

Cheers
 

Mattsdad

Member
I find it remarkable that when judging net artistic value, so many nowadays factor in disposition, when the two are barely related, if at all. Moreover, if one were to evaluate the entirety of western music, fewer than one in ten legends would survive this criterion. Beethoven? No, far too arrogant. Bach? No, far too aloof. Mozart? No, far too immature. Of course, people are allowed their opinions, while I merely state my own. All the best.
 
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