Irony?

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Fender makes "signature" guitars in multiple models. You can buy the offshore version which cosmetically looks like the artist's instrument in color scheme, you can buy the California production model which costs more for the same cosmetic resemblance, or you can buy the Custom Shop version which is supposed to be "just like" the artists favorite.

How many tennis rackets or golf clubs are there with famous players names on them? Amateurs would never be able to play with the ones that the pros actually use. The don't have the ability.

Drums are probably one of the few things where the pros and civilians actually use the same stuff. I don't think specials are made that are harder or take more ability to play. For instance, most pro guitarists have very high frets and typically a higher action that most bedroom players wouldn't be able to play on. But someone who does it 10 hours a day likes the extra expressive range and doesn't notice the extra difficulty. Pro horn players use much stiffer reeds and more open mouthpieces. And so on. The general public couldn't play Phil Wood's horn, or Robben Ford's Telecaster. Maybe bad examples as neither one of those cats is going to put their name on a budget product. But I think it's part of the endorsement deal with many folks. That the manufacturer is going to market down-scale stuff with their name on it.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
In the literary context, to be ironic denotes to state one thing while meaning another.
Not really the definition as I use it, but a good description for politicians when they speak. I tend to use it more like Jim was defining it, having to do with a result or set of circumstances that are usually the opposite of the expectation or intention.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Hey come on now !

A couple of weeks ago I practiced for a solid 20 minutes !

.
That's more than I do in a year - I'm impressed :)

Wait, so you're saying that you're going to be making a JimFiore signature snare after all? If I get a 70% discount on something inflated to 300% of the original, then it's roughly the same price as the original but it's now customized to my specs. Sounds pretty good to me.

Or was that sarcasm? Or perhaps a mild insult? Or are you just not that good at math?

Wait, did I just mildly insult you sarcastically on a drum forum? Am I you now? This is getting confusing...
Erm - no Jim. First up, your maths suck. If I add 300% to the original price then deduct 70%, I get a net 20% uplift on the original sum. That will pay for your name on a cheap sticker, & a worthless letter of authenticity stating it's a standard drum with a sticker on it ;) ;) ;)

Hoo boy, we have fun here! :)

My signature snare would be 2 plies of a lightweight fibrous material wrapped very tightly around themselves with an extra-hard "projection boosting" cylinder in the middle. It doesn't have heads or hoops, but the outer material is perforated every few inches for easy tearing, and it's very absorbent.
So it's a tampon?

Depends on the artist and product.
Agreed Ian, motivations vary hugely, but the bottom line in many cases is to sell drums. As I pointed out, there are examples of signature snares where the artist has had a significant influence on the design, & those elements have value, or are at least a cohesive instrument. Gavin's Protean comes immediately to mind. Most signature snares are a cosmetic makeover however, or otherwise feature small changes (i.e. size).
 

wombat

Senior Member
As an aside when is Guru bringing out its "Uncle Larry" signature Ace series snares ?

Comes with a complimentary cape and posters for your "Wumpus Woom" ( non Brits may have to look up "Rumpus Room" )
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
A death row pardon
Two minutes too late

Seems pretty ironic to me, especially if you think about things like a lyrical licence. Some of the other parts don't fit into the definition of irony, but not a bad album, shall we move on now. ^^

There's plenty of bad products that artists endorsed. But there are also some mighty fine ones in the intermediate price range. You can always smell when a product has been marked up due to an artist's name on it. But there are also instances where cheaper products endorsed by artists are superb instruments.

Not much experience with drums, but if you look at guitarists, how about Jeff Hanneman from Slayer. Now dearly departed, he has guitars based on his instruments at three price points. One is based on his original Les Paul available for $999 and the specs, hardware, construction are so top notch -- unseen of at the price point -- I had to bite. And would you believe it? Killer guitar, trumps my more expensive "Prestige" instrument from another manufacturer.

Top-of-the-line is $5000 for the same guitar with better construction, but the manufacturer obviously figured there was more money to be made with a cheaper version. Heck, I'd buy top-of-the-line if I could afford it. Bottom line is, an artist's signature can only attract so many people to vote once for a product with their money. But quality's the only thing that'll get people to vote again and again.

Making a blanket definition of all artist endorsed equipment as crap definitely would be ironic if all the kit you had sucked :D
 

Road Bull

Silver Member
I would say a lot of this artists series gear comes down more on the side of marketing demographics.

For instance, go back to the early 1990s. Tama seemed to want to associate itself firmly with heavy music. Their top of the line drums were Artstars>Granstars>Rockstars, and so on with the Artstar line being at the top as far as quality, and price goes. They may have an artist like Dave Lombardo from Slayer and Charlie Benante from Anthrax look as though they are playing the lower line of Rockstar drums, when in fact, they are playing Artstar shells with Rockstar hardware and badges.

So, some kid looking to buy some drums because of one of his favorite drummers plays the same drums might get to the store and see that kit and want the same. If all the artists played only the best gear, then the lower, more affordable, lines lack that artist association that some people value. If that kid is super lucky, he might work and save up to buy such a kit, or maybe get it as an awesome gift. However, if the kit he wants is around the $3K or so for the super high end signature kit, it might not happen at all. And as it has been mentioned before, it's better to sell a few hundred kits at a lower price, than it is to sell a handful at the higher price as far as the business side goes.

Also some artists are conscious of the fact that their fans are not made of money. Maybe they started off the same way, with little to nothing. They may want to associate their name with a product that people can afford. And they want to use their name and influence to inspire kids and others to try their hand at music.

There are products on the other side of the spectrum that seem to be made with unobtainium. A Danny Carey drum kit, ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojastIWl9sA ) or hell, even his snare are far beyond the reach of a good cross section of the drum buying public. And that snare is not THAT expensive overall, but for the demographic of all the younger Tool fans, it probably wouldn't happen. But if your are Danny, a drum kit made of melted down Paistes 2002s is not just some crazy expensive fantasy.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
If I were teaching a marketing or business admin class I would make membership and participation in DRUMMERWORLD mandatory.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Fender makes "signature" guitars in multiple models. You can buy the offshore version which cosmetically looks like the artist's instrument in color scheme, you can buy the California production model which costs more for the same cosmetic resemblance, or you can buy the Custom Shop version which is supposed to be "just like" the artists favorite.
I noticed that with the Geddy Lee signature bass. While it seems to be a very popular model among bass players, you can only get what he uses from the Fender Custom Shop for huge scratch. The MIJs seemed very nice by all accounts, and even the newer MIMs get good reviews, but neither are what the man himself plays.
 

JimFiore

Silver Member
Erm - no Jim. First up, your maths suck. If I add 300% to the original price then deduct 70%, I get a net 20% uplift on the original sum. That will pay for your name on a cheap sticker, & a worthless letter of authenticity stating it's a standard drum with a sticker on it ;) ;) ;)
Well, 20% is "roughly the same price" for which I expected mods but now you're just giving me a sticker for that? Bloody hell. If all I want is a bunch of stickers I'll just buy some Gibraltar hardware. I think they cornered the sticker market.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Ok, it's by agreement of course, nobody's forcing anyone to stand by a specific design, but it's not about the artist having an ego stroking drum naming experience, it's about using that artist's appeal/notoriety to sell drums to a target audience. It therefore follows that the drum will be produced at an appropriate price point for that target audience. No doubt, the artist will receive some consideration in respect of sales, but I don't absolutely know that to be the case.
Contract= agreement, or aggrievement if one doesn't realize when you sign 'their' contract you play by 'their' rules. Their contract means its their game.





Dave Weckl said straight up in his recent interview in Drumhead magazine part of his decision to leave Zildjian for Sabian was Zildjian refused to pay him royalties for his designs, and Sabian said they would.
Weckl probably didn't have a contract for royaties, or if he did and ZILDJIAN refused to pay that's something else, tho 'if' there actually was a contract to the effect, Im sure ZILDJIAN would've paid...so Im guessing the royalty part wasn't inked.

So as a major endorsing artist, you could propose a contract to a drum company to build your signature snare, but they probably wouldn't sign it.
 
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