In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drummers

[DrumEatDrum]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

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I'll resist being silly and say that an advanced drummer/musician/artist is someone who can say what he wants to say, and how he wants to say it without feeling limited or ill equipped in any way.

Its as simple as that. Everyone else is intermediate or on their way, or whatever you want to call it.

Beethoven and Philip Glass were both advanced musicians. One was deaf could play millions of notes, the other heard tons of music and then played nothing.

...

Best answer to this question.

Funny though, many guy we look up to as masters don't consider themselves all that great.

 

[bpumpkin]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

I like the idea of categories, even though it's only loosely applicable and highly subjective. I nearly posted my own earlier, it went something like this:

Beginner: just started drumming with no previous experience

Novice: can play several basic/medium difficulty beats

Intermediate: can keep decent time with basic/medium beats, is starting to learn difficult grooves

Advanced: can apply the more difficult grooves, keeps perfect time, is branching out into new styles

Expert: has mastered at least one genre and is 'good' in several others

Master: can play anything he or she wants

Yeah, I agree with this. Just having beginner, intermediate, and advanced isn't diverse enough. Your definition of advanced actually describes me perfectly as to where I'm at right now in my drumming.

OK, maybe I don't keep perfect time, but it's pretty good. I rarely get complaints about my tempo and I practice with a metronome all the time.

 

[Pollyanna]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

I love your posts Polly. Just like opening a box of chocolates for the first time, chosing one without looking at the description & taking a bite. As I click on each of your links, I have no idea what treat awaits me.

Careful KIS, or I'll break into a bad Forrest Gump imitation. I got a few of those links from others here .... this forum is a treasure trove of great links.

A couple of comments in this thread that resonate with me:

Your monetary worth to the people who pay you.

If you're evaluating someone else, then it's strictly subjective. For example, I think Barker is a great musician and showman, but mediocre drummer.

I think Travis is a fine drummer but donv's point is good.

I don't much care about hierarchic male crap but I understand that a lot of guys like to set up pecking orders and that testosterone drives them to do it

Aydee and the other two guys I quoted have talked about what really matters IMO - what gives YOU joy on the drums, the ability to escape the 9 to 5 treadmill and the capacity to give others a great time.

The rest is just "guy stuff" and I wouldn't want to talk you guys out of that any more than I'd try to talk you out of enjoying cars, football and fixing broken appliances. Just letting you know that the game is transparent. Gents, please don't mind me and by all means carry on with the hierarchic classifications

 

[aydee]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

The rest is just "guy stuff" and I wouldn't want to talk you guys out of that any more than I'd try to talk you out of enjoying cars, football and fixing broken appliances. Just letting you know that the game is transparent. Gents, please don't mind me and by all means carry on with the hierarchic classifications

!!! LMAO !!!

( Ol' wifee's got a nasty kick if I cant get away fast enough, and fixes everything including my recliner.. The game is lost )

 

[Pollyanna]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

!!! LMAO !!!

( Ol' wifee's got a nasty kick if I cant get away fast enough, and fixes everything including my recliner.. The game is lost )

Can you program a video recorder?

 

[aydee]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Can you program a video recorder?

Are you kidding?! I dont have a Phd. in Engineering!!! geeze..

Make great tea, though. If someone gave me a tea-bag. Absolutely nothing intermediate about my tea making

 

[Pollyanna]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Are you kidding?! I dont have a Phd. in Engineering!!! geeze..

Make great tea, though. If someone gave me a tea-bag. Absolutely nothing intermediate about my tea making

ROFL!

Sorry, I forgot. I should have asked Larry and the techguys who were talking about tuning drums with spirit levels and various other arcane doodads on the Possible Tuning Revelation thread.

I would describe myself as an intermediate tea-maker. It's important to move beyond a baseline standard because serving up stuff that tastes like dishwater simply doesn't cut it. There may be some deep analogy with drumming here - or not

 

[PQleyR]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

There almost always is.

 

[Big_Philly]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

I think it also has something to do with experience and maturity; e.g. being able to diplay some really good chops but also knowing when to do so (and especially when not to do so).

 

[drummee]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

It's never occurred to me to think of it that way. I just know what I like. Drummee, what brought that to mind?

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujcYw2QTPzM

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxaUjIYX1Y

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eoyyem2K8

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8VTlXVqUQ

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpmLGGpK7k

It just depends what you're advanced with. As a rough rule, if it grooves from A to Z then it's advanced

My understanding is that untuned percussion doesn't have a formal grading system from 1 to 9 like tuned percussion, piano, flute etc, where intermediate and advanced levels are well-defined. Apparently those grading sessions are not all beer and skittles. A friend teaches piano and flute and his students get really nervous at the gradings and he has to work hard to help them settle during their preparation. If they fail the parents are likely to get cross - and he ends up wearing some of the implied blame too.

Trouble is, it depends on the markers. Some are tougher than others. Some will take nervousness into account and some don't, presumably because they believe that performances require the ability to play through nervousness.

Give me the informal path any day. I drummed super-sloppy as a teen but, by God, it was fun

My teacher made a comment that ghost notes make a difference, and I thought 'oh.'

 

[tracer]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

The difference is experience.

 

[diosdude]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

A novice drummer still needs to develop his/ her sense of what and when to play

An intermediate drummer KNOWS what and when to play to sound tasteful and musical.

An advanced drummer KNOWS exactly what and when to play to sound tasteful and musical, and CAN PLAY IT.

 

[Fishnmusicn]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

It's never occurred to me to think of it that way. I just know what I like. Drummee, what brought that to mind?

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujcYw2QTPzM

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxaUjIYX1Y

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eoyyem2K8

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8VTlXVqUQ

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpmLGGpK7k

It just depends what you're advanced with. As a rough rule, if it grooves from A to Z then it's advanced

My understanding is that untuned percussion doesn't have a formal grading system from 1 to 9 like tuned percussion, piano, flute etc, where intermediate and advanced levels are well-defined. Apparently those grading sessions are not all beer and skittles. A friend teaches piano and flute and his students get really nervous at the gradings and he has to work hard to help them settle during their preparation. If they fail the parents are likely to get cross - and he ends up wearing some of the implied blame too.

Trouble is, it depends on the markers. Some are tougher than others. Some will take nervousness into account and some don't, presumably because they believe that performances require the ability to play through nervousness.

Give me the informal path any day. I drummed super-sloppy as a teen but, by God, it was fun

Wow, great seeing Billy Cobham playing those Fibes... wish I still had the set I had back in the nineties. I saw him at the Main Point in Bryn Mawr when I was 20 years old with Stanley Clarke playing a fretless electric bass. They really did seem like they were from another planet.

 

[Brundlefly]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Intermediate : Other people think your a great drummer.

Advanced : You think of yourself as a great drummer.

Not sure if this came out as you intended. They are, of course, flipped:

Intermediate : You think of yourself as a great drummer.
Advanced : Other people think of as a great drummer.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Is this question about ability or exprience. If that's the case, than anyone that's not working or in a band that's making progress is an intermediate drummer. I classify it by pro or semi-pro.

 

[Moktie]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Not sure if this came out as you intended. They are, of course, flipped:

Intermediate : You think of yourself as a great drummer.
Advanced : Other people think of as a great drummer.

No...That's how it was intended. I would get compliments all the time about how good I was, with only a few years experience. But it was 10yrs before I thought of myself as a good drummer. The difference is the relationship within yourself between your ID and your Super Ego. And if you remain humble or arrogant outwardly.

This statement as well as my previous post remain to be My Opinion.

 

[CJM]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

In every other endeavor there is a level above advanced, and that's Expert. That's where the top players and great unsung pros belong.

Advanced is, well, more advanced than Intermediate. I would think Advanced in drum set would mean you could execute all the rudiments cleanly to some speed X, play rock, be able to play in a band and handle jazz, latin and pop styles with some competence.

 

[wy yung]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

I will be refering to professionals and non or semi professionals. I do not know where to draw the line for "advanced".

Attention to detail, is my short answer.

I see the difference between professionals and intermediate drummers is that pro's have concentrated on and developed a good foundation through practice with click tracks, developing a good feel, technique, styles, the lineage etc etc.

The intermediate drummers I come into contact with have usually not bothered to work with a metronome, have spent any practice time just playing along to recordings of their favorite bands and so on.

Attention to detail and disciplined practice is what separates the men from the boys.

This does not mean that someone who has spent a lot of time practicing will be a success though. Being able to get along with people, having people skills is also something that should be practiced. I know some great drummers who are basket cases and as a result never work.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Wait, wait, wait....Again, is it ability or attitude? What if you're a monster player but have a bad attitude that no one wants to work with you? And with all of that ability you refuse to play what is needed for a gig?

Or, what if you're an average player and your playing fits a band's style so well and that band just happens to be touring the world and you're making a great living? Meanwhile, with your limited ability your professional enough in your attitude to deliver the goods each night?

Something to remember: Personality defeats talent every time.

 

[Stoney]

Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Something to remember: Personality defeats talent every time.

I agree. No one wants to deal with an A hole and if you're an A hole no matter what your advanced skills are no one will dare to deal with you!