In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drummers

#MINDS-EYE#

Junior Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

IMO, i think there is not much difference between the two. i think that giving yourself the title of 'BEGINNER' means that you have never picked up sticks or are just starting out. as for intermediates compared to advanced drummers depends how far you've made it in the musical industry as to which title you take.

if you have past the basic beginnings of drumming, you could class yourself as an intermediate player, telling thoes that you are of some credibility and you could be a good player or a great player. though, if you are advancing far in the music industry and playing with the big guys, you may call yourself advanced. but it is a long going debate about who falls under what category and so on. so take what ever title you like but id stay with Intermediate. unless you shredd!!
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Difficult definitions to nail down but an interesting question. Define advanced? In what? Without getting into micro explanations, I'd say an intermediate player has broadly mastered the basics and can be considered as a well rounded player. I think an advanced player can be considered as someone who excels at one or more elements / skills of the drumming craft. That doesn't necessarily mean chops or technical ability. It can (and should) include feel, dynamics, musicality, interpretation, specific genre, etc. I consider many players with mediocre chops to be advanced players when they display supreme ability in other areas of playing.
 

aydee

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

...

I'll resist being silly and say that an advanced drummer/musician/artist is someone who can say what he wants to say, and how he wants to say it without feeling limited or ill equipped in any way.

Its as simple as that. Everyone else is intermediate or on their way, or whatever you want to call it.

Beethoven and Philip Glass were both advanced musicians. One was deaf could play millions of notes, the other heard tons of music and then played nothing.

...
 

drummee

Junior Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

...

I'll resist being silly and say that an advanced drummer/musician/artist is someone who can say what he wants to say, and how he wants to say it without feeling limited or ill equipped in any way.

Its as simple as that. Everyone else is intermediate or on their way, or whatever you want to call it.

Beethoven and Philip Glass were both advanced musicians. One was deaf could play millions of notes, the other heard tons of music and then played nothing.

...
That is a VERY insightful answer ;)
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Difficult definitions to nail down but an interesting question. Define advanced? In what? Without getting into micro explanations, I'd say an intermediate player has broadly mastered the basics and can be considered as a well rounded player. I think an advanced player can be considered as someone who excels at one or more elements / skills of the drumming craft. That doesn't necessarily mean chops or technical ability. It can (and should) include feel, dynamics, musicality, interpretation, specific genre, etc. I consider many players with mediocre chops to be advanced players when they display supreme ability in other areas of playing.
I like this one. So many points I agree with here I'm better served simply highlighting it as opposed to just rewriting it with my own words.

I'm far more inclined to think of a drummer as advanced using this criteria rather than how far one has 'made it' in the music industry. Check the top 40 charts, the worldwide Idol phenominum and all the other '5 mins to superstardom' shows out there....there's a wealth of artists and musicians who've supposedly made it in the music industry, but somehow seem far from having made it musically.

Advanced, for my mind has to equal far more than just making it. There's plenty of excellent (read advanced) muso's still sluggin' away at it in small local venues for the sheer love of it.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

It's never occurred to me to think of it that way. I just know what I like. Drummee, what brought that to mind?

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujcYw2QTPzM

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngxaUjIYX1Y

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eoyyem2K8

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra8VTlXVqUQ

Advanced drumming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpmLGGpK7k

It just depends what you're advanced with. As a rough rule, if it grooves from A to Z then it's advanced :)

My understanding is that untuned percussion doesn't have a formal grading system from 1 to 9 like tuned percussion, piano, flute etc, where intermediate and advanced levels are well-defined. Apparently those grading sessions are not all beer and skittles. A friend teaches piano and flute and his students get really nervous at the gradings and he has to work hard to help them settle during their preparation. If they fail the parents are likely to get cross - and he ends up wearing some of the implied blame too.

Trouble is, it depends on the markers. Some are tougher than others. Some will take nervousness into account and some don't, presumably because they believe that performances require the ability to play through nervousness.

Give me the informal path any day. I drummed super-sloppy as a teen but, by God, it was fun :)
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

I love your posts Polly. Just like opening a box of chocolates for the first time, chosing one without looking at the description & taking a bite. As I click on each of your links, I have no idea what treat awaits me. How much fun is that!

I love the Beatles quote on the Youtube clip. John Lennon "Ringo isn't even the best drummer in the band"! Priceless.
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

this kind of thing is so subjective, it's almost impossible to clearly define, especially when you look at the "advanced" category. what is advanced? certainly drumming at the highest level is advanced, like what our drumming idols do. but what about other halfway decent drumming. is that advanced too? maybe, maybe not. it depends on who you talk to.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Yeah...entirely subjective. As you grow you get a feel for who's below, at, and above your level of playing. Some folks think of Ringo as "advanced"...he fit the music perfectly and became, arguably, the most famous rock drummer in history. Other folks would scoff and say someone like Dennis Chambers, Steve Smith, Jojo, etc. are "advanced" drummers and on a much higher level than anyone else.

I think of advanced as being someone who has a very full and diverse vocabulary and can express it with grace, control, and superb technique. And, dead-solid time w/ a groovy feel, of course.

Not me, in other words...bwuaha!
 

matthew

Senior Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

my response here is totally for fun. this was something i thought of today and I came up with a silly little scaling system

all of ths is subjective but ill give possible examples to clarify the numbers (don't hate me, its just an example off the top of my head)
1 to 10

1 = literally just picked up the sticks
2 = can play a beat or two
3 = can play in a band
4 = can play a good beat finally
5 = can play well in a at least one style and able to improvise comfortably at a basic level
6 = can play well in a variety of styles and be quick to adapt suitably to musical changes
7 = highly skilled session and professional worker (thousands of great unknown players)
8 = considered one of the best in the field (something like vinny/jojo/dennis/gadd/etc)
9 = best drummer in the world at this time (one of vinny/jojo/dennis/gadd/etc)
10 = best drummer anywhere ever until this point (joey jordison)

ok the last one is a joke...

and i gave this all of three minutes thought... so enjoy!!
 
A

audiotech

Guest
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Your monetary worth to the people who pay you.

Dennis
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

haha! at least you had the sense to put joey jordinson as the absolute all time greatest drummer who's ever or ever will pick up a pair of drumsticks!
 

brittc89

Pioneer Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Sound and time, thats what I think makes the real difference. A really advanced player, in my opinion, gets a great, balanced sound from the drums and executes everything with great time.
 

mrchattr

Gold Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

In my mind, three categories just isn't enough. Beginner is obvious...it's a beginner, someone who is just starting the journey...maybe through (if you think in terms of school systems) middle school jazz band, or in some of the less-forward music programs, high school jazz band, although I know mine was pretty swinging.

That leaves only two categories...intermediate, and advanced, to include every drummer in. Woah. I mean, I can play in a wide variety of styles, record with various artists with or without click, come up with original, creative parts to songs, can push or pull a band, tend to drive my band from behind the kit (when needed), and make a living playing the drums...all of which I would think puts me over the term "intermediate." But that means that I put myself in the same group as Gadd, Rich, Blakey, Beauford, etc...which I clearly do not.

Whatever the highest category is, though, I think a lot of it has to do with a micro-understanding of the instrument. Not just being able to play broad styles, or play really well, but really "knowing" drumming. It should be instinctive. You can watch another drummer up close, and be able to see little things he is doing right or wrong, at full speed. You should be able to look back a performance you had and realize how many little hand motions you made (little things, like slight stick adjustments, etc), and what effect they had, and why you did them. You should know the history of your instrument. You should be able to see past the label "style," and always play something that fits. You should be playing with no extra, unnecessary movements (unless done for showmanship, obviously). Have an intimate relationship with your wrists, your fingers, your arms. It's the little stuff.
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

i think someone who's beyond advanced will be not only extremely skilled but will also be pushing the state of the art and doing things that have never been done, or never been done in quite the same way they're doing it.
 

donv

Silver Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

There are 2 ways to consider this. Are you evaluating yourself or someone else? If you evaluating yourself, where you are from beginner to advanced would be determined by where your drumming is in relation to your goals. Ringo, since he's been mentioned, will never be JoJo, but I doubt he wants to be, or ever wanted to be.

If you're evaluating someone else, then it's strictly subjective. For example, I think Barker is a great musician and showman, but mediocre drummer. I doubt he gives a darn what I think and considers himself advanced based on his own goals.

It has nothing to do with talent or money. There just isn't enough opportunity or money to carry all the talent there is. Especially today. I see guitarists and drummers doing at 10 what in my day we struggled to do at twice that age. Videos, DVD's and overall access to talent has really changed the rules.
 
R

Random Name 123

Guest
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

my response here is totally for fun. this was something i thought of today and I came up with a silly little scaling system

all of ths is subjective but ill give possible examples to clarify the numbers (don't hate me, its just an example off the top of my head)
1 to 10

1 = literally just picked up the sticks
2 = can play a beat or two
3 = can play in a band
4 = can play a good beat finally
5 = can play well in a at least one style and able to improvise comfortably at a basic level
6 = can play well in a variety of styles and be quick to adapt suitably to musical changes
7 = highly skilled session and professional worker (thousands of great unknown players)
8 = considered one of the best in the field (something like vinny/jojo/dennis/gadd/etc)
9 = best drummer in the world at this time (one of vinny/jojo/dennis/gadd/etc)
10 = best drummer anywhere ever until this point (joey jordison)

ok the last one is a joke...

and i gave this all of three minutes thought... so enjoy!!
I like the idea of categories, even though it's only loosely applicable and highly subjective. I nearly posted my own earlier, it went something like this:

Beginner: just started drumming with no previous experience

Novice: can play several basic/medium difficulty beats

Intermediate: can keep decent time with basic/medium beats, is starting to learn difficult grooves

Advanced: can apply the more difficult grooves, keeps perfect time, is branching out into new styles

Expert: has mastered at least one genre and is 'good' in several others

Master: can play anything he or she wants
 

Moktie

Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

Intermediate : Other people think your a great drummer.

Advanced : You think of yourself as a great drummer.
 

groovemaster_flex

Silver Member
Re: In your opinion, what makes the difference between intermediate and advanced drum

i think there was a post about intermediate drummers have a solid grasp on beginner concepts and... i forgot what about advanced and i'm too lazy to go back and look.

i consider myself a higher end intermediate drummer. i can play a number of styles comfortably, and i can make them sound GOOD, but not AMAZING. I dont have jaw dropping licks that would leave eyes like 8-| OMG WHAT DID HE JUST DO.

i believe that an advanced drummer should have a solid grasp of most styles and be a genius at one. imho. all drummers i know personally who i consider advanced can play a variety of styles VERY well, but excel at one in particular.

they dont necessarily have jaw dropping chops, but they play things that make me wonder "How the F*** did he think of playing that there...? Most drummers I know would've played this, but what they played just suited it so damn well!"
 
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