If chops matter then, why are Ringo and Lars

Push pull stroke said:
Yeah, the “wish I followed my dream” thing is very common. But I’m not sorry I didn’t spend decades on the audition circuit like classical musicians tend to do these days. Because music is so social for me, I’d rather just make music right where I am. If I’m not friends with the players around me,
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Well then you are all good.
Honestly......that's great.
 
dcrigger said:
How do we know what's in their heads? When all we can discern is what we hear. I just don't see how "end result" tells us anything about motivation or intention. All it does IMO is make a criticism more personal.... making them being "wrong" - immature, selfish, whatever as the reason for the end result.... as opposed to just critiquing the end result is... "I can't imagine why they choose to do this, when to my ears, it clearly doesn't work."
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No one can know what's in a person's head. All I can do is form an opinion based on what I see.
I see the pro's doing it (the aforementioned Pridgen & Spears) and those trying to do that (YouTubers).

From that, to me the difference is obvious.
 
John DeChristopher said:
Thank you, Joe! If you think Ringo didn't/doesn't have "chops" i.e. technique, then you're not paying attention.

And people too often conflate chops with technique and flashy playing with lots of notes.

Ringo's "chops" are his rock solid time, unmatchable feel and uncanny instinct to always create the perfect drum part for every song. And then on top of that, he had great technique then tends to go unnoticed or is just lost on people who don't give his playing a critical listen.
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To piggyback off of this...Ringo Starr has played some of the most legendary drum pieces in rock music history...ie Come Together, Get Back (broken down beautifully by Gregg Bissonette on John's My Drum Room video), the drums coming out of what I refer to as Paul's bridge on A Day in the Life are absolutely don't change a thing perfect, Ticket to Ride, The heavy toms in The End...Ringo was one of the first to incorporate a lot of tom tom work. The guy was a major influencer long before the Internet was even a thought...not only of other drummers but indirectly whole bands.
 
joedrum said:
To piggyback off of this...Ringo Starr has played some of the most legendary drum pieces in rock music history...ie Come Together, Get Back (broken down beautifully by Gregg Bissonette on John's My Drum Room video), the drums coming out of what I refer to as Paul's bridge on A Day in the Life are absolutely don't change a thing perfect, Ticket to Ride, The heavy toms in The End...Ringo was one of the first to incorporate a lot of tom tom work. The guy was a major influencer long before the Internet was even a thought...not only of other drummers but indirectly whole bands.
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But ironically, the things he was doing often only worked well on those specific tunes. I can’t find a fault in his drum part for “Come Together”, but I have trouble imagining that approach working in non-Beatles contexts. Speaking of an unusual and very Tom-heavy groove, I mean.

Another drum part of his that I love that is very Beatles-y is “In My Life”. The little hi-hat half-sizzles and the cymbal bell lick are just SO perfect….but not necessarily extremely applicable outside of that song.
 
Here's Ringo outside of The Beatles.


Another song Gregg and John talked about was Back Off Boogaloo which was off a solo LP.
 
Push pull stroke said:
But ironically, the things he was doing often only worked well on those specific tunes. I can’t find a fault in his drum part for “Come Together”, but I have trouble imagining that approach working in non-Beatles contexts. Speaking of an unusual and very Tom-heavy groove, I mean.

Another drum part of his that I love that is very Beatles-y is “In My Life”. The little hi-hat half-sizzles and the cymbal bell lick are just SO perfect….but not necessarily extremely applicable outside of that song.
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Sunshine Of Your Love is the only other tom heavy song from another artist that comes immediately to mind, you're right, not many other examples...

And yes, the In My Life stuff is so subtle, but ingenious. So much of their catalog has small, subtle things like that, they don't stick out and blend in so well that you just take it for granted, until you start to really analyze what's really going on.
 
BruceW said:
And yes, the In My Life stuff is so subtle, but ingenious. So much of their catalog has small, subtle things like that, they don't stick out and blend in so well that you just take it for granted, until you start to really analyze what's really going on.
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Which is very British of them, don’t you think?

In contrast, the Stones aren’t subtle or understated lol. But still brilliant, and a lot of fun
 
I think Ringo was great. He was a revolutionary drummer IMO. And he was also one heluva of an actor in Caveman, too. Lol.

And I love the “underrated“ drummers through rock history as well…I have always thought Gregg Bissonette and Les Binks were criminally underrated
 
rungeflash said:
I think Ringo was great. He was a revolutionary drummer IMO. And he was also one heluva of an actor in Caveman, too. Lol.

And I love the “underrated“ drummers through rock history as well…I have always thought Gregg Bissonette and Les Binks were criminally underrated
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I'm with you... there are just so many of them. Drummers without a well known name but have played on some extremely well known songs. Not talking about the legendary session guys but drummers who just flew under the radar on name recognition outside the industry. Take the song Old Fashioned Love Song by Three Dog Night for instance... I've always loved the drums on that song but most drummers couldn't tell you who it is... please don't tell me it's Hal Blaine 🤣

I know it's Floyd Sneed
 
Lennytoons said:
There's no such thing as luck. There is hard work, talent, skill, preparation and timing that can all fall together to produce success.
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Not that fast - Zak Starkey is certainly in luck because his father is Ringo, with all the wealth, social status and ability to teach. For Ringo himself I agree it was not luck. I've read Paul (or was it John) said that Ringo was Liverpool's best drummer when they found him.
 
Push pull stroke said:
But ironically, the things he was doing often only worked well on those specific tunes.
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Nonsense.

The Drum part for "In My Life" was re-used by Stan Lynch for Tom Petty's "Break Down" only Kycnh played with a shuffle feel.

"Ticket To Ride" is similar to the intro for U2's "Gloria"

Unsuall tom heavy grooves? How about "There Goes My Hero" by the Foo Fighters. It's rather Ringo-esc, though played much heavier.

The repeating drum fill on "Here Comes the Sun" if you flip it upside down and spread it across the toms, it's the "In the Air Tonight" fill.
 
DrumEatDrum said:
Nonsense.

The Drum part for "In My Life" was re-used by Stan Lynch for Tom Petty's "Break Down" only Kycnh played with a shuffle feel.

"Ticket To Ride" is similar to the intro for U2's "Gloria"

Unsuall tom heavy grooves? How about "There Goes My Hero" by the Foo Fighters. It's rather Ringo-esc, though played much heavier.

The repeating drum fill on "Here Comes the Sun" if you flip it upside down and spread it across the toms, it's the "In the Air Tonight" fill.
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Lynch copied his groove, but not his feel. Ringo has a very smooth, understated way that he moves around the kit, which is where his “slippery” feel comes from. It’s very intentional, I’m just not sure if he was inspired by someone else, or just always played that way because of his innate personality
 
Iristone said:
Not that fast - Zak Starkey is certainly in luck because his father is Ringo, with all the wealth, social status and ability to teach. For Ringo himself I agree it was not luck. I've read Paul (or was it John) said that Ringo was Liverpool's best drummer when they found him.
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If Zak wasn’t any good, though, he wouldn’t be with The Who and Oasis. Being related to someone famous means diddley if you can’t back it up. Kelly Osbourne wanted a career as a singer, got a little airplay, did a Tonight Show appearance where she lost the key of the song, and that was it for her career as a singer. There are plenty of kids of famous people who never get anywhere. Zak’s success is way more due to being able to deliver and working hard than being Ringo’s kid.
 
how do you remember so much about Kelly Osbourne : D
 
JimmyM said:
If Zak wasn’t any good, though, he wouldn’t be with The Who and Oasis. Being related to someone famous means diddley if you can’t back it up.
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Zak is a great drummer. But if he were exactly as great -- or even better -- but had been born in Osawatomie, Kansas to a single mother who hadn't graduated high school his chances of playing with either Oasis or the Who would be somewhere between slim and none and slim just walked out the door.

Iristone said:
For Ringo himself I agree it was not luck.
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Of course it was luck. Listen, I'm about as big a Ringo fanboy as you can get, and he deserves everything good he's ever gotten times ten. But if he were exactly as great -- or even better -- but had been born in Cupar, Scotland to a single mother who hadn't graduated (the then UK equivalent of) high school, OR if he'd been born five years earlier or later, his chances of playing with the Beatles would be somewhere between slim and none and slim just walked out the door.

The importance of hard work is often underestimated. (Although by few to none on this board.)
Luck without talent means little.
Talent without at least some modicum of luck means less.
 
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GretschedHive said:
Zak is a great drummer. But if he were exactly as great -- or even better -- but had been born in Osawatomie, Kansas to a single mother who hadn't graduated high school his chances of playing with either Oasis or the Who would be somewhere between slim and none and slim just walked out the door.


Of course it was luck. Listen, I'm about as big a Ringo fanboy as you can get, and he deserves everything good he's ever gotten times ten. But if he were exactly as great -- or even better -- but had been born in Cupar, Scotland to a single mother who hadn't graduated (the then UK equivalent of) high school, OR if he'd been born five years earlier or later, his chances of playing with the Beatles would be somewhere between slim and none and slim just walked out the door.

The importance of hard work is often underestimated. (Although by few to none on this board.)
Luck without talent means little.
Talent without at least some modicum of luck means less.
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But people in Osawatomie or Cupar born to single mothers CAN be successful at it, too. Let’s face facts…your chances of success in music are equal to hitting Powerball and getting hit by lightning in the same week no matter who you are or how hard you work. But some people do it to this day.

There is some luck involved, but from what I can see it’s the luck in a big audience thinking your music is good enough to buy, rather than nepotism and having a lot of money to spend on it. Seen a lot of acts with the luck of big money, talent, charisma and support behind them who bombed.
 
Push pull stroke said:
But ironically, the things he was doing often only worked well on those specific tunes. I can’t find a fault in his drum part for “Come Together”, but I have trouble imagining that approach working in non-Beatles contexts. Speaking of an unusual and very Tom-heavy groove, I mean.

Another drum part of his that I love that is very Beatles-y is “In My Life”. The little hi-hat half-sizzles and the cymbal bell lick are just SO perfect….but not necessarily extremely applicable outside of that song.
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You can say the same of Gadd on '50 Ways To Leave Your Lover'. Ringo played plenty of standard grooves, but also innovated when it was needed.
 
The conversation is a bit confused now, between 'rock stars' and 'successful musicians'.
I had and have not any ambition to be a rock star. I have worked in music full time from 19 to 64 yrs old, which I deem a 'success'.
Regarding all the people who fell by the wayside, I honestly don't think many at all who never got anywhere in music (IF they had the ability, personality and determination) were ignored or left behind by the music scene. Other things factored in.
Regarding contemporaries I was at college with, all the guys and gals that had 'something' as a student went on to have success as a full time musician. Anyone who didn't, either had a social problem, were just generally difficult to be around, or weren't prepared to compromise their art for one moment.
When I moved to London and didn't know anyone, I was about a week away from being assigned a labourer job by the local employment office when I got a gig playing at a local dance hall. The music was a mix of old time dance (quicksteps, waltzes) then to 40 pop. I couldn't drive so cycled an hour to work in winter, then an hour home at 1am.
'Success' I define as playing music for a living....not being a millionaire rock star.
 
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