I so have to try this....

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Watching some of Steve Jordan's videos, I noticed he only uses one cymbal he can crash and ride on (I've been doing the same). My K Custom Dark Ride makes a great crash too. But I theorize why he uses 17" hi-hats now: they make a good crash cymbal set too! I have a 17" thin crash, I just need to find a 17" medium crash to use as a bottom and I'm gonna try it.

He gets a nice sloshy sound when played open, and the chick sound is phat. Played with sticks it sounds pretty cool. I'm not saying I'm a Jordan fan boy and have to do what he does (hell, if I was, I'd be playing Yamaha drums and Paiste cymbals), but I think there's a reason for his using 17" hi-hats. If you only have one good crash/ride, the hats can be your other source of crash sounds. And my playing with just one cymbal lately has made me focus more on the groove, so I think it helps. Some people who hire me don't seem to understand it yet (everyone is so used to seeing what they think the drummer should have) but I think at the end of the night everybody starts to get it. I just so have to try this.

If anyone has any 17" medium crash cymbals they'd like to send my way, I'm accepting the donation - but it must be a Zildjian A ;)
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
1. 18" crashes are more common. I would recommend bumping up an inch. You'll have more readily available options to try out.
2. With such large sizes, consider using a heavily-hammered top to dry out the sound a bit (maybe a K Dry Custom Session). The slosh will sound incredible and be easier to reel in, and it gives more definition to your time keeping.
3. Make sure your hi hat stand has adjustable spring tension, and tighten up that spring tension, or you'll have slow action.
4. You have to post a video when you get your setup, but you know this. :)
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
1. 18" crashes are more common. I would recommend bumping up an inch. You'll have more readily available options to try out.
2. With such large sizes, consider using a heavily-hammered top to dry out the sound a bit (maybe a K Dry Custom Session). The slosh will sound incredible and be easier to reel in, and it gives more definition to your time keeping.
3. Make sure your hi hat stand has adjustable spring tension, and tighten up that spring tension, or you'll have slow action.
4. You have to post a video when you get your setup, but you know this. :)
Well, I already have a Zildjian A 17" thin crash. I'm looking at eBay and found a guy with an older 17" crash ride for a pretty decent price, just waiting for him to answer a question. Fortunately, my Tama RoadPro hat stand has an adjustable spring, but my Stagemaster one doesn't - you think it'll make that big of a difference? I don't think a 17" thin crash is that much heavier than a my 14 Quick Beat top. You think so?
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
OK I've acted on this. Just picked up a 17" Zildjian crash/ride from a seller on eBay. It should be heavier than my 17" thin crash. I decided to go for it after seeing more of Steve Jordan play his 17" hats. That sound is PHAT, and I really think it's a good bridge to the 20" K and can double as a nice pair of crashes too.

When I receive it, I'll set up and do a little video. I am so jazzed at the prospect. Even if it doesn't work out, I've got an additional crash/ride too. As much as I like the Quick Beats, or the New Beats, you don't really get a pitch change until you go larger. A friend of mine has 15" New Beats and I didn't think they were low enough.

I'd like to thank Steve Jordan for putting the idea out there, and of course, Benny Greb tries it too on his DVD, so he's partly to blame as well. I think the sheer size will scare most players. I will endeavor to phatten up my groove!
 

Soupy

Silver Member
I have a 17" Dream Bliss Crash and a 17" Paiste Signature Full Crash, and wow, do they sound nice as hats. They have this amazing, deep, sound. The foot chick is a little light though, doesn't have a ton of cut and they push air around like a ceiling fan. Phenomenal when played with a stick, though.

The real problem is that I'm very fond of both cymbals as crashes, and I'm worried that I'm going to crack one of them using them as hats. Seems like hats get hit pretty hard, and the Bliss on top is a pretty thin cymbal.
 

Shirai

Member
I never paid much attention to Steve Jordan until Bo's thread yesterday about the 2 lessons of importance turned me on to him. In the small handful of clips I watched of him playing big hats, the tempos were pretty laid back. Maybe that's the point? Does he still use them for more brisk tempos? How does it work out? Soupy, can you speak to that? I'm just wondering if the bigger cymbals would lose some definition or clarity with quicker timekeeping or quick 16ths. Bo, I'll be curious to hear about the results of your big hat endeavor.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I use 15's, and had a set of 16" K Lights I played for about a year (just sold them) that were cool.

The 16's were just as "quick" as the 15's. Playing faster music, the sound is going to "blend in" more than smaller 13 or 14" hats.
I used some 18's a bit and it was cool.

What's really cool about the bigger hats is the real estate you can play with. You can really get a lot out of bigger hats and being able to crash them (if the space between them is decent) is a big plus. The 16's I had were able to be crashed easily. There were several nice extra sounds I could get, without adding and lugging around more "stuff".

I like the idea behind the 17" size, but I think that's too big for what I'd need. I still want some cut rather than a little stick sound and a lot of blend.

I am looking into getting some different 16's in the next few months.
The cymbals Sabian has for the 2013 Vote (16" AAXPlosion hats) are cool, but I'd probably go for a set of Sabian AA Sizzle hats. I've used a set of 15" Sizzle hats for about 10 years and they work great for me.
I tried a few different types/brands, and those Sizzle hats just work well for me. The other contenders are some 16" HHXCellerators. I played a set of 15's in that model and they were pretty cool. The AA Sizzle hats are just more useable in everything I do because they are that "A" "AA" "New Beat" "Regular" type hats that go with any style easily.

Have fun Bo!!!
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
If I only used 1 cymbal (sorry, I mean symbul), I’d be afraid of trashing it. One of the reasons I like to use many crashes is to spread the punishment around. Once a simbol is vibrating, crashing it again has a greater chance of breaking it.

For the 1-symbal crowd, has anybody tried a Sabian Omni? I’ve tested a couple in stores, but I still haven’t decided if I like them or not.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
About trying different hats - I like using a smaller top and larger bottom.

Tried a 15 over 16, and a 14 over 15, and found them to be great fun.
They were cracked crashes and rides I cut down to smaller diameters.

Being able to strike the bottom hat cleanly when they're wide open, opens up a new dimension.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
I'm just wondering if the bigger cymbals would lose some definition or clarity with quicker timekeeping or quick 16ths.
I don't think there's really any issue. You can play the hats as tight as you want, and they're smooth as heck and quite responsive to opening them up for accents. The slosh when played loose is the best part though, so I can see why playing a slower tempo sounds nice.
 

Kudzu Monroe

Senior Member
I always enjoy reading Bo Eders post and his tales of discovery, ie: his personal journey down the "Yellow Brick Road"

I tried 16s after seeing this video ... for the bluesy/rootsy stuff I love they really fit.

My choice was a pair of 1960s issue 16" Zildjian New Beats ... a really amazing set
 

Drumolator

Platinum Member
Sabian came to Scott's Drum Center in Lafayette, Louisiana today with all those protoypes. One of them was 16" hats. When I played them, I did not care for them. To each his/her own. Peace and goodwill.
 
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