I offer a challenge to the forum

B

blade123

Guest
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
I don't think it's possible but I haven't given it a lot of thought. Do you think it's possible?

Rudiments evolved from the European battlefield use for drums to call out instructions but people have been playing drums for tens of thousands of years and the Western-style rudiments in some fashion for maybe a few hundred years. Paradiddles show up in African drumming and double-stroke rolls are the foundation for lots of African and Afro-Cuban music.

The real question to me is, are any of the rudiments original inventions, or are they just adapted from something else?
 

oops

Silver Member
Technically I guess you're right. By the mere fact that double strokes and single strokes are both rudiments, you cannot possible make any combination of notes without either of these, hence all drumming is rudimental by nature.

But I think the term rudimental conjures up a different mental image entirely: if you told me to play some thing 'rudimentally' or to involve rudiments in my playing I would be aiming for a certain feel: a tight, crisp regimented feel, rather than a Roy Haynes feel. (not saying that Roy Haynes' feel is at all neither tight or crisp, merely that you can see a vast difference in the way Roy and say, Steve Gadd play).

Re: Deathmetalconga.

I was under the impression that the modern rudiments were a method of standardizing all the different drummer's patterns, so that any drummer could play with any army and everyone would understand what was meant. So I'd say they're neither original inventions or adaptations, but merely standardizations or collections.

Am I rambling?
 

The Colonel

Silver Member
This is very easy. You're not thinking outside the box.

After I get my gallery open and we have cameras/recording equipment/good-sounding-rooms I will submit my entry. Until then, I hope others put forth a musical effort.


Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
 

Latin Groover

Pioneer Member
This is very easy. You're not thinking outside the box.

After I get my gallery open and we have cameras/recording equipment/good-sounding-rooms I will submit my entry. Until then, I hope others put forth a musical effort.


Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
I agree i can think of a few ways i could record and you would think I was playing a drum, but that may be cheating.

or

Name this rudiment rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....direct me to a publication which has that as a rudiment..

or

Seriously - stop thinking like a drummer and play your instruments.
 

jonescrusher

Pioneer Member
Yes, as LG and others suggest, the cymbal ostinato rrrrrrrrr etc. would be hard to pin down. A moot point at best.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
It's a bit of trick proposition, isn't it. You could probably identify any grouping of notes as a rudiment (ie; a quick RL could be interpreted as a portion of a single stroke roll, or you could call a slightly non-precise kick-cymbal hit a flam.)

If your guideline is the written notation of rudiments as played on one drum - example: a single stroke roll must be at least RLRL, a triplet is indeed RLR, but RL is fair game as long as not played in quick enough succession to be a flam - then it's perfectly easy to contruct a drum part or a whole song without specific rudiments, and with fills.

Part of the conundrum seems to be that drum parts are necessarily complicated, and therefore must contain rudiments, intentional or otherwise. I suppose those kind of parts do. But overlooked is the fact that the vast majority of drum parts are pretty straight ahead. While they undoubtedly also contain rudiments, probably at least a single stroke roll in the form of a fill, it would be no problem to simply those fills and play a perfectly correct part without a rudiment. You also have to accept that a fill is not necessarily a full measure (although now that I think about it, if you want fills to last a full measure, that's no problem either!)

But if you stretch the concept - a lot - and suggest that, regardless of tempo, any sticking of RL or LR constitutes a flam... or that RL on the snare going into a right hand crash constitutes a triplet (RLR)... or that 2 kicks and a snare constitute a drag... I suppose you could pretend those are rudiments, even though playing those parts could never be interpreted that way by anyone who's expecting to hear rudiments. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law, either.

Bermuda
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
Many of you don't seem to understand what I mean when I say "you can't play something that's not a rudiment".

Here is my challenge: I challenge you to write out a drum part that does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments (or rests only, obviously).
I dare you to do it.
Rick Allen of Def Leppard cant obviously use rudiment with his hands and he plays that damn kit :p
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Its been a while but I'm guessing if I play R L R L R L on the one and three of a 4/4 time signature that it would not be construed as a rudiment. To my thinking rudiments are a bit more complex than that. Tell me the wind up monkey beating L R on the metal toy drum is playing rudiments???? If we stick with the basic 40 now perscribed I don't think R L R L was listed as one of those.
 

Vipercussionist

Silver Member
Rick Allen of Def Leppard cant obviously use rudiment with his hands and he plays that damn kit :p
Of course he can play a single handed roll, probably quite good at this point!! No??


Lessee, a musical piece with no tie to rudiments . . .

ONE single hit to a snare drum. I wrote it AND copyrighted it, so don't try to STEAL it!!

Not being part of a pattern, it can't be part of a rudiment which by definition is a pattern of more than one note. AMIRITE???
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.
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__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
Of course he can play a single handed roll, probably quite good at this point!! No??

__________________
Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
The question is: Is the single handed roll is a rudiment ? From the P.A.S. rudiments sheet, single handed isn't a rudiment "yet".

Hey, thinking of it if we stroke all of our four limb at the same time on the kit, is this a rudiment ???
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The question is: Is the single handed roll is a rudiment ?
Not at the moment. Rudiments are based on specific left and right hand sticking (along with accents therein.) So it is currently not possible to play a correct rudiment with one hand.

Bermuda
 

king fail

Senior Member
does not contain a rudiment, a modified rudiment, or a combination of rudiments
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
This is probably a stupid suggestion, my apologies in advance. But the strokes preceding the right foot bass could be perceived as a single stroke roll could they not? R L ........
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
Triplets. Right hand tom, left hand snare, right foot bass. No rudiment there.
But it's actually based on a rudiment which is triplet. I think the OP wanted to point out there's no possibility of playing drum if any kind of rudiment form isn't involved.
 
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