I feel guilty for pulling the ripcord too late

B

Boppel

Member
Hi drummers community,

I have been reading about your experiences and tips for so long. It's such a helpful community. Thank you for that. Today I have to tell you about my experiences with my old drum teacher and would like to ask what to do to get back on track to have fun exercising and playing the drums.

I started learning drums 1 1/2 years ago with age of 54 at a drum teacher who's philosophy is to play just by ear. No notes, no scripts, no counting. He tought me a basic course with first beats and switched then later to play to playalongs. Hard for me because I struggled with the new speed so I could not concentrate on patterns and so on and so on. I was not ready for that.

It was to early to switch to songs and he did not adapt to my personal speed and needs that I could handle. He said "listen", played a beat or a new fill, and then I should play it. No notes no nothing.
And so it went on lesson by lesson. Then I asked for some technique exercises. Hand, foot, ... He said "that's personal stuff, you will figure it out on your own". At that point I should have stopped the whole thing but I did not know better. But watching YouTube and reading showed me that there is more than trying to play new stuff by ear at 1500 BPM ... To be honest I knew it better but didn't want to see.

Today I think I should have stopped paying him and have left a lot earlier. I stopped it last month as I had enough from sitting frustrated at home and found out that I had five songs, bad playing habits, no good timing, no written notes except what I wrote down from what I could remember after the lessons (in the beginning). It was so boring and frustrating.

You could say "you should have left earlier", "it's you fault", "you should have known better", .... All this is right. I have to add that I suffer from depression and anxiety and that it is therefore not so easy for me to say what I need or to tell the teacher that I am paying for .... Nothing. That's one part of the problem, I know.

I now have a new teacher, with a real teaching concept, written exercises, looking always for my playing technique, starting slow and leaving me going forward with my own speed. He has a lot of experience and I love the way he is working with me during lessons. And he is believing in me that I will progress.

So everything should be fine ...

BUT I still have in mind that I have to start from scratch, playing slowly, looking how to hold the sticks, where to put my feed, ... Like restarting from the first lesson again, loosing 1 1/2 year of stupid learning evolving bad habits and so on.
It makes me feel so frustrated, guilty and angry about myself, the old teacher and the whole situation. Loosing a lot of money and time (I love playing drums, it's like therapy, and want to learn it before I have to leave earth ;).

Instead I should be glad to have - from my point of view - a teacher who fits perfect to me and my needs.

How can I find back to a positive attitude and simply have fun learning and playing the drums? It's so hard.

I would be happy to hear some of your thoughts and experiences about similar situations.

Thanks, Boppel
 
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Hey Kai,

I'm neither a drum teacher nor a therapist, so take my advice with a grain of salt. :D

Relax, don't beat yourself up and have fun. You likely didn't learn to walk with perfect instruction, yet you are capable. We're all going to make mistakes - it's a part of life! Even a bad teacher will teach you something - now you know what a bad drum teacher is! ;)

Looking back, at 1 1/2 years, I was still a "baby drummer" - many would probably feel the same. I doubt that all you have are bad habits - you might not play or hold the sticks like your favorite drummer, but so what? You're not him/her - YOU'RE YOU! And that's a good thing!! You'll continue to advance your drumming skills as time marches on - the fact that you invest in a teacher tells me that you want to learn and are committed to learning. Another good thing!! Don't beat yourself up thinking that you are advancing too slowly.

I started drums at 47 (I'm 65 now); mostly to be a missing link in a band consisting of my brothers-in-law, but it soon became personal. I don't play out anymore, but I enjoy playing and I continue to learn and hone my skills without a teacher. I'm not perfect and I'll never be, but I'm content and am enjoying the journey.

Your drumming enthusiasm will ebb and flow - that's normal. Again, I'm sure most would agree. When I find myself not excited to sit behind the kit, I pay more attention to listening to music - really listening to the drums and how the drummer interacts with the other musicians. The listening sort of finds its way into my mental drum catalog and becomes part of my learning. So, don't sweat the small stuff. Take things at your own pace - at a pace that keeps things fun. Your drumming ability will grow faster than you think.

Remember, playing an instrument should be fun! I wish you the best!!
 
Boppel said:
Hi drummers community,

I have been reading about your experiences and tips for so long. It's such a helpful community. Thank you for that. Today I have to tell you about my experiences with my old drum teacher and would like to ask what to do to get back on track to have fun exercising and playing the drums.

I started learning drums 1 1/2 years ago with age of 54 at a drum teacher who's philosophy is to play just by ear. No notes, no scripts, no counting. He tought me a basic course with first beats and switched then later to play to playalongs. Hard for me because I struggled with the new speed so I could not concentrate on patterns and so on and so on. I was not ready for that.

It was to early to switch to songs and he did not adapt to my personal speed and needs that I could handle. He said "listen", played a beat or a new fill, and then I should play it. No notes no nothing.
And so it went on lesson by lesson. Then I asked for some technique exercises. Hand, foot, ... He said "that's personal stuff, you will figure it out on your own". At that point I should have stopped the whole thing but I did not know better. But watching YouTube and reading showed me that there is more than trying to play new stuff by ear at 1500 BPM ... To be honest I knew it better but didn't want to see.

Today I think I should have stopped paying him and have left a lot earlier. I stopped it last month as I had enough from sitting frustrated at home and found out that I had five songs, bad playing habits, no good timing, no written notes except what I wrote down from what I could remember after the lessons (in the beginning). It was so boring and frustrating.

You could say "you should have left earlier", "it's you fault", "you should have known better", .... All this is right. I have to add that I suffer from depression and anxiety and that it is therefore not so easy for me to say what I need or to tell the teacher that I am paying for .... Nothing. That's one part of the problem, I know.

I now have a new teacher, with a real teaching concept, written exercises, looking always for my playing technique, starting slow and leaving me going forward with my own speed. He has a lot of experience and I love the way he is working with me during lessons. And he is believing in me that I will progress.

So everything should be fine ...

BUT I still have in mind that I have to start from scratch, playing slowly, looking how to hold the sticks, where to put my feed, ... Like restarting from the first lesson again, loosing 1 1/2 year of stupid learning evolving bad habits and so on.
It makes me feel so frustrated, guilty and angry about myself, the old teacher and the whole situation. Loosing a lot of money and time (I love playing drums, it's like therapy, and want to learn it before I have to leave earth ;).

Instead I should be glad to have - from my point of view - a teacher who fits perfect to me and my needs.

How can I find back to a positive attitude and simply have fun learning and playing the drums? It's so hard.

I would be happy to hear some of your thoughts and experiences about similar situations.

Thanks, Boppel
Click to expand...
To me you should look at it as what this guy really gave you was an introduction to the drums. But not much beyond that. I would not look at the year and a half as wasted at all. I've taken lessons from quite a few drummers over the years and they're all different. But once you start getting into more technical stuff and reading and proper technique (BTW opinions vary on that) ect things will naturally feel slowed down. Look at it as a whole. Learning through osmoses. Take a little from here take a little from there. To steal a line from The Band... You take what you need and you leave the rest.
 
I have taught some students over the years. There is nothing wrong with learning by ear. While my preference is to teach from a variety of books (Groove Essentials (Tommy Igoe), Stick Control, Alfred's Drum Method, Syncopation for the Modern Drummer, Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer, etc), I have had students who excelled at learning by ear and struggled with reading music. At least one had a learning disability which hindered his progress with reading.

I have also had students come from other teachers that had some very bad habits, like holding the sticks with a death grip that prevented them from playing at faster tempos. I tend to believe that these students likely had good teachers but didn't listen/learn from them, but I am sure there are lots less competent teachers.

While correcting bad habits takes time, it does not mean you have to start over, just work a little each day on the technique that needs to be corrected and try to incorporate it into your other practice.

On a personal note, I had the opportunity to take a private lesson from Jason McGerr (Death Cab for Cutie) when he was in town. (He is an amazing teacher and drummer) I had him analyze the push/pull technique that I learned on my own. There were issues, I tended to rush the upstroke cause an uneven distribution of the two notes (slight shuffle). I am much better now, but it is still a work in progress. As an aside, my teachers in the late sixties and seventies did not teach this technique.

Enjoy the journey, there will be ups and downs, but it is definitely a fun ride.
 
Learning to play the drums above all should be fun. Everything else is secondary. Unless you're a prodigy or a professional, all the rest of us are just hobbyists. Find the most fun method to learn drums. It might be simply learning on your own (like I did) or perhaps formal lessons starting at snare rudiments.

Give it another shot. If it's not fun, I've pack up the drums and take up some other hobby that really moves you.
 
teacher of 25+ years here....

you went through what A LOT of people go through...but you are astute enough to be analytical and critical of progression and how it works for you.

some people just blindly follow what the teacher says, and don't ask questions

playing by ear is just one of the MANY skills you need to have to be a great drummer. Ignoring the reading side of things, and ESPECIALLY the technique side of things sets up pretty big roadblocks honestly. I have had to help so many students in the past to undo bad training and relearn in both areas, and it usually ended up in them exploding in skill and confidence.

it is good that you found someone who works for you, and as many have said: don't worry about the "lost time"...EVERYTHING is a learning experience, so in that time, you learned a lot of valuable lessons about your decisions, and defining youe view of progression
 
I never teach by books or written music. I do my best to teach by ear. With that said, I tell my students this up front. I also tell them that if this ever becomes a point of stress, take a break whether that be for a week or a year. I also tell them that I don't take it personally if they find another teacher that works better for them. I'm also very forward with what my strengths are and what my weaknesses are. Want to learn to play rock and country songs? I can help. Want to learn jazz, afro-Cuban, or cool stick tricks? You need to find someone else.
 
Boppel said:
Hi drummers community,

I have been reading about your experiences and tips for so long. It's such a helpful community. Thank you for that. Today I have to tell you about my experiences with my old drum teacher and would like to ask what to do to get back on track to have fun exercising and playing the drums.

I started learning drums 1 1/2 years ago with age of 54 at a drum teacher who's philosophy is to play just by ear. No notes, no scripts, no counting. He tought me a basic course with first beats and switched then later to play to playalongs. Hard for me because I struggled with the new speed so I could not concentrate on patterns and so on and so on. I was not ready for that.

It was to early to switch to songs and he did not adapt to my personal speed and needs that I could handle. He said "listen", played a beat or a new fill, and then I should play it. No notes no nothing.
And so it went on lesson by lesson. Then I asked for some technique exercises. Hand, foot, ... He said "that's personal stuff, you will figure it out on your own". At that point I should have stopped the whole thing but I did not know better. But watching YouTube and reading showed me that there is more than trying to play new stuff by ear at 1500 BPM ... To be honest I knew it better but didn't want to see.

Today I think I should have stopped paying him and have left a lot earlier. I stopped it last month as I had enough from sitting frustrated at home and found out that I had five songs, bad playing habits, no good timing, no written notes except what I wrote down from what I could remember after the lessons (in the beginning). It was so boring and frustrating.

You could say "you should have left earlier", "it's you fault", "you should have known better", .... All this is right. I have to add that I suffer from depression and anxiety and that it is therefore not so easy for me to say what I need or to tell the teacher that I am paying for .... Nothing. That's one part of the problem, I know.

I now have a new teacher, with a real teaching concept, written exercises, looking always for my playing technique, starting slow and leaving me going forward with my own speed. He has a lot of experience and I love the way he is working with me during lessons. And he is believing in me that I will progress.

So everything should be fine ...

BUT I still have in mind that I have to start from scratch, playing slowly, looking how to hold the sticks, where to put my feed, ... Like restarting from the first lesson again, loosing 1 1/2 year of stupid learning evolving bad habits and so on.
It makes me feel so frustrated, guilty and angry about myself, the old teacher and the whole situation. Loosing a lot of money and time (I love playing drums, it's like therapy, and want to learn it before I have to leave earth ;).

Instead I should be glad to have - from my point of view - a teacher who fits perfect to me and my needs.

How can I find back to a positive attitude and simply have fun learning and playing the drums? It's so hard.

I would be happy to hear some of your thoughts and experiences about similar situations.

Thanks, Boppel
Click to expand...
Look, I am an advocate for playing along music you like because, it's fun and a very easy way to learn more skills and it works, as it has worked for me for over 36 years, but I also learned basic drum notation (on my own, I have never taken a drum lesson).
This means I can write what I play note for note (which I don't do because what I can play would take about 5 or 6 pages worth and it would have to be specific for left foot vs right foot just as the hands as well. I can do it, I am just lazy so I won't do it unless I had to teach someone how to understand drum notation.

So, not taking lessons didn't mean I didn't learn anything useful, I also know a list of rudiments that I practiced way early when I learned them and then moved on from them because I didn't find a practical use for my playing (Not saying they don't have it but I just didn't needed them).

If someone is actually charging you for lessons, then you are well within your right to demand a personalized plan. Yes an actual lesson plan and where you should be within a given timeframe of taking those lessons.

Say, you start at I never touched the drums before to I should be able to play Back in Black by ACDC within your third or fourth lesson and understand how to count and write/read those notes, yes you might not play it perfect but you should be able to understand what each limb is doing, and be able to write it down of course if you can write it you can read it and so on. At that point you can buy this book:


Very easy to follow along once you understand how to read drum notation. Now if you pair this book with a metronome and practice playing the patterns as cleanly as possible (playing to the correct tempo without going slower or faster and without making mistakes) You will see your drumming improve by leaps and bounds, and once the patterns are memorized then you can start practicing them on the kit (not just the snare but snare and toms and even combinations of snare, toms and cymbals! Maybe I need to do that since I do own this book...

If you get to that level, you can even never take a lesson again (but get drum books or write down what your idols are playing) and understand it and practice it to be able to play it.

There are a lot of people that call themselves drum teachers and can't play a quarter of what I can play. :ROFLMAO:

To me if you are going to teach you should have a wealth of knowledge, you should have a lesson plan, you should provide progress expectations and have proven results (other more advance students).

Also don't let anyone tell you how to do something that doesn't work for you. For example I CAN play with that weird upside down hand grip (I believe is traditional) and I can play just as fast as I can with my normal grip. I was told I was holding the sticks wrong but when I looked at every single drummer I emulated they ALL were holding the sticks the way I naturally did! so bad habit or not?

if it is not uncomfortable and it works for you, it is NOT a bad habit. However, there are a few things that might be, I for example got used to play double bass heel up, (not a bad habit in itself) as I can reach about 180 bpm playing 16 notes, maybe 190 pushing it hard (but I start to become inconsistent). Not a bad habit but I need to change technique at that point (past 180 BPM) in order to play the notes cleanly (every single metal drummer I know does this (change technique when reaching a certain bpm threshold) I either do swivel (which allows me to reach 200 BPM) or do heel toe (which allows me to reach almost 300 bpm (but since I never took lessons it too me years to find out about it and now I am learning it or I should say I learned it but I am getting better at it).

Not sure what you are doing that you might call bad habits hopefully nothing that is hindering your playing. Also don't let the short time you have playing become a reason you feel that someone playing longer is much better than you. Drumming is NOT a competition, I am not better than anyone, I just play and have fun, if someone likes it and ALSO has fun listening to me playing then huge win. Good luck with your studies and hopefully you find someone that can actually help you.

So your first self lesson should be finding out how to read basic drum notation once you know that a whole new world will open for you.
 
I forgot to say that maybe you have the same problem I have when learning guitar (another instrument I am teaching myself).
I tend to pick music that is too hard to play for my current level (that is not a problem I should be able to play it in no time IF I stick with practicing that part until I can play it at the correct speed then add the next part and so on). (which I have done successfully with other songs). but my main problems are time (life gets in the way of my practicing) and attention span.. I tend to mess with that part that I am learning, then after a few practice runs (not good runs just learning and memorizing the part) I move on and play something differently instead of staying with it until I can play it at the right speed.

The goal (my goal) is to be able to record a cover playing all the instruments (2 guitars, bass and drums ) I can sing but I will not sing for a cover.
Just for fun not for any other reason. (making the cover that is).

So maybe focusing on a specific goal needs to be mentioned here too.

And this is one of the songs I was talking about learning on guitar :

 
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Bo pell,

In hindsight, we all could’ve done things differently on our drumming journey. Of course we can’t change the past, only move forward. As lots of others here have pointed out, lots great players never learned to read, and didn’t study technique. Furthermore, music is an aural art form, so there are pluses to starting without notation. But your only a year and a half into this journey, I think now’s the perfect time to explore new methods.
Great thing about this art form, there will always be something new to explore.

Happy Travels !
 
Thank you all for your detailed answers. I am so pleased with how many of you have written so much in such a short time. I will work my way through all of your suggestions and tips. I am very grateful. Regards Boppel!
 
There's an interesting pattern that tends to occur with this sort of thing.

We sign up for lessons with someone, and we think they're great. Then eventually, we become dissatisfied for some reason, and we sign up for lessons with someone new. At that point, we decide that the old teacher was horrible, and the new teacher is great.

Eventually, the pattern typically repeats itself with the new teacher as well.

Incidentally, this is very similar to what happens in romantic relationships. The old love interest was horrible, and the new love interest is great...until eventually they're not.

If it's time to try some lessons with a new teacher, no problem. Go for it. It'll probably be fun, and hopefully productive. Still...I would resist the temptation to demonize the previous teacher or to feel bad about staying with that teacher as long as you did. I'm sure you learned much more from them than you currently realize.

Also...remember that only YOU can turn YOU into a drummer. The fact that you had somebody helping you at all is a bonus. Plenty of people make the trip all alone.

I hope this gives you a slightly different perspective that ends up being helpful in some way.

Best of luck to you.
 
Boppel said:
I would be happy to hear some of your thoughts and experiences about similar situations.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you found a good teacher. Don't worry about the first year, it's insignificant time compared to how long it takes to learn the drums really well (maybe about 100 years or so). :) It's not linear anyway, depending on what you're practicing and how much, some things go quicker.

Since you probably have a(n unfortunate) tendency to measure and judge things, how about setting some concrete goals that you could achieve? Maybe together with your teacher. Something like becoming able to do certain things, play something or whatever you wish for.
 
Hi,

I read through all of your comments and what should I say except that they give me so many different perspectives for my 'problem'. Again thanks for taking your time to write your individual points of view.

You opened my restricted view at my current situation, which feels to me like 'I have to start all over again'. Unfortunately, this may be due to my depression, which makes me quickly focus only on the bad or weak things. Instead, I should go some steps backwards for a more open view, which I unfortunately often forget to do.

And yes, you are right, there are some things I learned during the past time with my old teacher.

I learned reading and writing drum notation. How to use Musescore to write down lessons content as far as I could remember. Unfortunately, that didn't last long because I couldn't remember all the content of the lesson afterwards. It was just too much and too fast. In the end it felt pointless to continue trying ... stop, I wanted to focus on the good things ...
I learned to create my own playalongs with click track and drumless songs using tools.
I learned to find drum sheets for the playalongs, to put the notes into a simpler form which I could play somehow and to understand how songs work (intro, verse, each 4 bars, ... basics ... you know better than me).
I learned somehow to listen and play to what the teacher showed me.
I found a practice room with an acoustic drum kit which I can use nearly every time when I want to. I have a practice room at home for my ekit and my wife's piano.
I can play easy stuff to a metronome, name the components of a drum kit ... I have to stop being sarcastic ;-) ...

You may now ask 'And how are your playing skills?'. This is all stuff which I can reuse later (the positive) but my playing skills are still ... sh*t (the bad). All the skills and tools mentioned above are results, because I did not know better to help myself to get benefits from the lessons. The style of teaching didn't suit me. What is a positive new thought.

I don't want to blame the teacher. He was always clear to me how he will teach. He said at the beginning of the course that I will never get written notes or anything else. His philosophy was to create THE sense for the beat by playing to music. Sounded good to me and it worked good for me in the beginning but didn't bring me further since I started struggling with ghost notes.
At this point of time he lost me or should I say ... I lost. The only thing I really complain about is that it was always too fast in BPM and that I felt overwhelmed and he didn't adapt to my needs. I couldn't keep up and started trying to make it work somehow. At this point my frustration began to build up.

Someone of you wrote correspondingly 'See it as an introduction to drumming'. This is what I will do. And for me the most important thing is to listen to myself, what do I need to progress.

I found that I need a structured lessons plan with a sheet of paper or a book which I can use at home for practicing. I need a teacher who teaches me a little music theory and drum technique (hand, foot, ghost notes ;-). And who starts slowly and gives me the time I need to realize/implement what he teaches me. And who comes over and cares e.g. how I hold sticks ... That's what I like - that's what I need!

This are just some thoughts downloaded from my brain which started to show up after reading all of your comments. If I do not answer to each single comment please forgive me about that. But believe me you help me to 'find back to a positive attitude and simply have fun learning and playing the drums' (my initial wish) ... and somehow you are all my therapists. Thanks!
 
Learning by ear got a lot easier once I learned how to read and recognize regularly used riffs on paper. No way I would learn from teachers who don’t do both.
 
Jeff Graw said:
But there is something wrong with not learning to count.
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I totally agree from my perspective as a beginner. I had always problems to find the right spot to start even the easiest fills. I started then on my own to count at least when a fill has to be played. I shouldn't have done that and the teacher didn't like it ('hey, play just by feeling the beat'), but it helped a bit to find the right time to play the fills. The new teacher makes sure I count and what should I say, it's easy to start the fill at the right time.
JimmyM said:
No way I would learn from teachers who don’t do both.
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That is my learning too. I think I would not have such a struggle if I learned these basics at the beginning of my drum journey.
 
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i believe we never learn to play an instrument....there are simply too many definitions of 'having learned' things to apply here.

Our skills advance...our skills wain...hopefully more former than latter...but we never end that journey until WE end...believing otherwise is where arrogance comes from...and stagnation.

The people we meet can become family...or the guy you look at across the court room.

You can be taken advantage of(what I think happened in that described teaching situation) or possibly find yourself in that mirror of action....and ideally progress as a person away from that mirror.

This is your journey...its not linear...it's not a 'straight path'. It can be messy, it can progress far further in a short period than you ever imagined and you can get stuck at a skill plateau far longer than you think you can tolerate.

Embrace this truth and love every moment you have playing music...its pleasures and, especially, its pains....and let this extend to your whole life...one of the gifts of music.
 
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