I drove my wife's car and listened to her radio station... my thoughts.

MntnMan62

Junior Member
I want to chime in here because some folks here are claiming the exact opposite i.e. that things were better in the 80s as compared to now. Think about it: Michael Jackson, the Cure, Simple Minds, Tears for Fears, Madonna(!), etc etc. IMHO there is a qualitative difference between then and now in terms of music production. These were real bands with real musicians. I have to respectfully disagree that the issues were ‘always there’.It’s simply not true. Technology (and corporate greed) has since effectively eliminated the need for live instrumentation and something very fundamental has been lost in the process.
You list some decent bands. Well, I wouldn't call Madonna decent. She couldn't sing without an Auto Tune. Have you ever heard any of her live shows where Auto Tune wasn't available? They are out there. I could sing better. And while MJ may have molested children, he put out some damn good music. But you forget that back in the 80's there was some pretty atrocious stuff. Leading the pack was Milly Vanilly and their ridiculous controversy. How about A Flock of Seagulls? A-ha? Bananarama? Devo? Oh. And what about this one: KISS? You talk about corporate greed in the music industry? That has definitely always been there. Frank Zappa wrote profusely about it. His three record release of Sleep Dirt, Studio Tan and Orchestral Favorites within months of each other was basically an FU to Warner Brothers. The only difference is that live instrumentation may have made it easier to make really horrible music. But whether its' live, synthesized or otherwise, horrible music is horrible music. It's has most definitely always been there. Look at it this way. As long as there are people out there who have never played an instrument, who know nothing about music and who's only expectation from music is be able to tap their foot to it, there will always be people making music that only satisfy that single criteria. So, I beg to differ. And in the end, what difference does it really make if I'm right or you are right? None.
 

Dhango

Member
I was a disc jockey for years. Los Angeles, San Diego, Portland OR, Houston, plus other small markets starting out, and eventually here in Phoenix before retiring in 2009. Started broadcasting in 1973 and Top 40 was king. Didn't like all the "bubblegum", but Motown was enjoyable, as were some of the rock and pop groups. Back then there weren't clicks, etc. If you weren't good on your instrument when recording, in came the Wrecking Crew who COULD play anything. Now days musicianship is a dying art form, replaced by computer geeks, loops and samples. Auto tune is the worst invention ever. If you can't sing in tune then go back to trade school. After 25 years as a disc jockey I got into doing news and talk shows because I just couldn't relate to the "music of today". I also don't understand the need for twirking on stage during concerts that are staged more like musicals or broadway shows with awful music. Maybe it's just old age. Let me end with this.....LONG LIVE THE STONES, THE BEATLES, THE WHO, THE GUESS WHO, LITTLE RICHARD, CHUCK BERRY, GARTH BROOKS, ALAN JACKSON, VINCE GIL, MERLE, MARTY, THE OAK RIDGE BOYS, HANK WILLIAMS, CONWAY TWITTY, ARTIE SHAW, GLEN MILLER, LOUIS PRIMA, THE LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA, THE IRISH TENORS, SABINE MEYERS, and now you can add more to the list.
I would take Garth Brooks off that list ...
 

Dhango

Member
Just a thought:

A music genre that always gets tons of radio play, makes the artists/producers/labels tons of money, sells millions of CDs/downloads/streams, wins most of the major awards, and has millions if not billions of fans world wide does not suck. You just don't like it.
Selling millions of records and becoming a millionaire does not make you a quality musician/performer. Look at BTS, Lady Gaga, Kate Minaj, Ariana Grande or The Monkees. Bad music is bad music, the musical taste of the public can also be bad ...
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Selling millions of records and becoming a millionaire does not make you a quality musician/performer. Look at BTS, Lady Gaga, Kate Minaj, Ariana Grande or The Monkees. Bad music is bad music, the musical taste of the public can also be bad ...
That's not the point. Music that sucks does not sell millions, or make millions. Those millions come from somewhere, the fans. Packing 20,000+ venues nightly does not equal suck. There is a market for this music, whether you like it or not, and it is huge. If you want to tell half the world they are wrong, be my guest, but you would be wrong. Again, it doesn't suck, you just don't like it.

And who is Kate Minaj?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
In 2005 when Sirius was fairly new, they were offering a lifetime subscription for $500. Best $500 I ever spent. At the going rate at the time, I calculated it would take 3 years to break even. So I've had free Sirius for almost 12 years now. I like being able to listen by genre. Paid radio is great.
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
3 things I'm picking up here, don't drive your wifes car, don't listen to the radio and if I don't like it it doesn't suck. remember radio delete cars ? they had it down in the old days.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
3 things I'm picking up here, don't drive your wifes car, don't listen to the radio and if I don't like it it doesn't suck. remember radio delete cars ? they had it down in the old days.
Suck and like are opinions. People presenting their dislike of certain genres of music as fact of it sucking do not have a valid argument. Remember, for every 100 people that don't like something, 100 people do. Ergo, it doesn't suck, you just don't like it. Better?
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Yeah, no one listens to music anymore, now where's my iPhone, I want to skip this track.... snicker.

I think there is plenty of good music out there, but radio probably isn't the outlet it once was.

My issue is that there doesn't tend to be much in the way of low rent live performances and interactive music anymore. Its like they have figured out how to remove any sort of unstructured good cheap fun out of the system. My suspicion, and it could be a superstition, but some one is tracking every move everyone makes with a phone, then figuring out how to eliminate time when they aren't buying stuff. Maybe that guy with the foil hat was right.
 

paradiddle pete

Platinum Member
Suck and like are opinions. People presenting their dislike of certain genres of music as fact of it sucking do not have a valid argument. Remember, for every 100 people that don't like something, 100 people do. Ergo, it doesn't suck, you just don't like it. Better?
Man in my world if it sucks , it sucks. but that 's my opinion. What 100 people? Popular doesn't mean good either. And why should I have to listen to someones " Modern " music for want of a better term as I stroll past them with their bluetooth portable device on the beach. man that sucks.
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Man in my world if it sucks , it sucks. but that 's my opinion. What 100 people? Popular doesn't mean good either. And why should I have to listen to someones " Modern " music for want of a better term as I stroll past them with their bluetooth portable device on the beach. man that sucks.
Okay, I can't stand Tool, The Greatful Dead, Fleetwood Mac, or Adelle. Absolutely hate them all, reasons not withstanding. Do they suck?

My wife hates all bluegrass music. Does it all suck?

And no where did I say popular means good. But think about that for a minute. If something is popular then it isn't bad obviously to some people. Are their opinions of less value because you don't like it? Not at all. But that's exactly what is going on here. Just because we play instruments doesn't make our opinions more valuable than those who don't. Complaining about music you don't like, or the way that music is made now is about as useful as tits on a fish.

I agree that being forced to hear music you don't want to listen to sucks, but it's the situation that sucks, not the music. The other person that put you in said situation likes the music, and they aren't wrong for doing so.
 

Dhango

Member
Okay, I can't stand Tool, The Greatful Dead, Fleetwood Mac, or Adelle. Absolutely hate them all, reasons not withstanding. Do they suck?

My wife hates all bluegrass music. Does it all suck?

And no where did I say popular means good. But think about that for a minute. If something is popular then it isn't bad obviously to some people. Are their opinions of less value because you don't like it? Not at all. But that's exactly what is going on here. Just because we play instruments doesn't make our opinions more valuable than those who don't. Complaining about music you don't like, or the way that music is made now is about as useful as tits on a fish.

I agree that being forced to hear music you don't want to listen to sucks, but it's the situation that sucks, not the music. The other person that put you in said situation likes the music, and they aren't wrong for doing so.
Yes, they can be. I don't like hip hop or rap or heavy metal. I don't even consider those three to be musical genres ¿do they suck? Big, really big. I don't like country music, bebop or modern R&B ¿do they suck? No, they don't ¿get it? There will always be an audience willing to pay fortunes to see bad artists playing bad music ¿do music sucks? The bad one(read above) YES, it sucks, selling a hundred million records or just a handful.
Take it as far away as you can from the music business: ¿does Trump suck? You could say yes and yet 63 million people voted for him. It is not about quantity but quality and, musician or not, you surely can appreciate quality when you hear it. Quality which, quite frankly, is very unusual on today's radio...
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
There’s something good in every genre. There’s plenty of good hip-hop/rap, and lots of less-extreme metal is pretty listenable. Lots of good country, how about Johnny Cash? etc.

You just need someone who knows the genre to guide you toward the stuff that newbies to the genre can more easily enjoy. I used to hate metal. Then I realized how good some of it is. Granted, speed metal and death metal are pretty intense. But that’s not all there is in metal.
 

moxman

Silver Member
I heard the same thing back in the late 90s driving in England - every frickin radio station was playing the same manufactured thumping pop music. Every song sounded the same with cheezy programmed drum disco-like beats and tinny keyboards. I had to grab a bag. Flash forward to today and it's kind of the same thing - it seems there are a handful of music songwriters and producers that churn out endlessly similar songs and beats based on a formula.. so they all sound the same. If I hear one more 'pop hit' with the beat with keys that goes 'ba - ba- bah..... ba-ba-bah' I'll need to find my bag again. Going waay back to the wrecking crew days.. yes they churned out all the hits for a ton of artists - but they were musical wizards.
I've heard a few good ones by Post Malone, Tones and I, Taylor Swift.. but generally I lean toward the rockier side.
So what's in store for the future? A cyclical retro return to yester-year - or an AI driven song making machine that replaces all the songwriters!
The good news is there are some really great pop songs out there.. but you have to wade through all the manufactured chaff to find them.
 

ottog1979

Senior Member
Funny, just a couple weeks ago I wrote this in an email to a friend who shares love of music and discovering and seeing bands with me:

Someone invited us to see the Chainsmokers last Sunday. As you know, I'm super eclectic in taste and can enjoy almost any music. We left at the third song. Much of what passes for popular music is sh*t. The Chainsmokers concert was mostly teen and pre-teen girls and their parents. The “band” was a singer (who really couldn’t sing) a background singer and a couple other guys pushing DJ buttons on stage. All of the singing was auto-tuned with effects (we could sing the show and sound good). Lots of stage show – jumping around, fireworks, lights, fog, a motorcycle show. But, it felt like being at a being at a sucky rave party where the entertainers were trying to get the crowd into it but for the most part wasn’t happening. Realizing that the Chainsmokers sold a lot of music 2-3 years ago, nearly completely computer created, is depressing. I’m going to sound old saying this, but the music in the popular radio-based market is unbelievably terrible. And what the general public will buy and be happy with is hard to fathom.

Good music isn’t dead, it’s just mostly hiding in the shadows. Thank GOD for real music produced by Wolf Alice, Samantha Fish, Allah-Las, War On Drugs, All Them Witches, Adele (yup), Alabama Shakes, Band of Horses, Blackberry Smoke, Cage the Elephant, etc., etc. The underground / indy scene is keeping music alive.

...It was embarrassing to leave too, because they stayed (apparently liking it). But we couldn't take another 60 minutes of sitting there.

On top of all that, Chainsmokers showed up in the top 20 earners for 2019 at $56MM.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2019/12/06/the-worlds-top-earning-musicians-of-2019/#62bcb3a9164e
Hard to digest.
 
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