I do not hear many long complicated fills in recorded and live music

striker

striker

Silver Member
I am just posting this to verify and get feedback on my own observations. When I hear recorded music, I do not hear many complicated fills. I was listening to John Robinson's latest interview and he tells this famous story that the producer (you know who) removed all the toms because he wanted to make sure that he does not play any fills on that particular tune.

In the live performances that I have recently seen, I did not see any complicated fills. I saw one or two faster single stroke rolls over the snare and toms, but that was it. In some cases the drummers were using simple beats on cymbals as the fill instead of playing the fill on the snare and the toms.

So, it looks to me that short but tasty one or two quarter note fills are generally preferred over longer and complicated four quarter note fills.
 
striker said:
I am just posting this to verify and get feedback on my own observations. When I hear recorded music, I do not hear many complicated fills. I was listening to John Robinson's latest interview and he tells this famous story that the producer (you know who) removed all the toms because he wanted to make sure that he does not play any fills on that particular tune.

In the live performances that I have recently seen, I did not see any complicated fills. I saw one or two faster single stroke rolls over the snare and toms, but that was it. In some cases the drummers were using simple beats on cymbals as the fill instead of playing the fill on the snare and the toms.

So, it looks to me that short but tasty one or two quarter note fills are generally preferred over longer and complicated four quarter note fills.
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Preferred by who(m)?

I don't think we can extrapolate a musical feature as being popular based on frequency of it being heard. Too many manipulating forces in this market.

Supply controls demand in music...hence so many dissatisfied music consumers and the content empty 'top 10'.

I think complexity/simplicity is a red herring when discussing 'pleasing the populace'...as the populace does not care about complexity/simplicity...just the experience.

Component analysis outside of extremes has limited use except in the boardroom(and the illusions slung about there).

(edit: Putting on my boardroom hat and blinders, simplicity tends to cost less and the industry is no longer swinging for the fences...but are dedicated to steady income over the next 5 years like other industries in a market no longer driven by direct sales so why try to appeal to direct sales and its analysis vagaries or revisit the campaign for big risks/successes of the past? - but this is pure opinion, of course)
 
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A few comments and guesses. Perhaps simpler and more complicated fills lend themselves better to the music genre and the situation that the drummer is playing.

Do certain Rock and " sit down and listen" genres of music lend themselves better to longer fills? Do longer and complicated fills fit better within the context of playing a drum solo?
 
For me, it all depends on what the music calls for. I like prog rock, so I do hear long and complicated fills. Peace and goodwill.
 
Depends on genre. Current modern pop and country and what is on radio there isn't any need for complicated fills. Rock maybe there is some, but not really any Led Zeppelin ELP Who Cream etc. anymore. Is there even such a thing as "rock" anymore? The music doesn't call for complicated fills.

But listen to jazz. You'll hear some complicated drum licks. Might not be fills it's more trading and solos.
 
"borrow my CD collection"
 
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Kudos to the artist, producer, and drummer for knowing when busy fills don't work... and when they do.
 
Yeah....I guess you don't hear fills like this too much....on the AM/FM Radio...like we did befoe.
But I love me some tasty 1/4 notes and 1/2 notes too.
 
I hear them every day...but I listen to progressive metal, thrash metal, black metal, punk, hardcore, jazz, progressive rock...

it depends on where you listen....
 
striker said:
I am just posting this to verify and get feedback on my own observations.
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Your observations and perspectives are always very interesting and it makes it a good experience to join in your threads.

You refer to recorded music in general.

The recorded music on mainstream radio, MTV, Top 100 etc yeah, I agree with you...but there's exceptions to the rule like The Dave Matthews Band.

But recorded music in other genres I still believe that there is a strong culture of complexity and mathematical fills like Birds of Fire by The Mahavishnu Orchestra.
 
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As others have stated, this varies greatly by genre - but I would also add that it has varied by era as well. Thus IMO the need to be well listened and aware of the vocabulary of the style/genre of the music being played - then obviously having the facility to execute whatever that musical knowledge prescribes in a given setting. Keeping in mind that the personal tastes of those we are playing with or working for vary as well.
 
The vocals and the lyrics are in the forefront, and drummers – or any other instrumentalists – should not overshadow them. Same goes for instrumental pieces with a specific soloist. A couple of modern examples of (my favorite) bands that have great arrangements and space for busier playing would be Snarky Puppy and Sungazer, but there are a gazillion others.
 
It depends on song structure and the "air" between the parts that does or doesn't allow for the longer, complicated fills playing off the music...
So dance music vs blues or rock.
 
striker said:
A few comments and guesses. Perhaps simpler and more complicated fills lend themselves better to the music genre and the situation that the drummer is playing.

Do certain Rock and " sit down and listen" genres of music lend themselves better to longer fills? Do longer and complicated fills fit better within the context of playing a drum solo?
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A lot of metal contains long and complicated fills:


But fills don't have to be fast to be complex either:


of course there a much more complex fills than those but i just wanted to give a couple of examples.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Depends on genre. Current modern pop and country and what is on radio there isn't any need for complicated fills. Rock maybe there is some, but not really any Led Zeppelin ELP Who Cream etc. anymore. Is there even such a thing as "rock" anymore? The music doesn't call for complicated fills.

But listen to jazz. You'll hear some complicated drum licks. Might not be fills it's more trading and solos.
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What the music "calls for" is an EXTREMELY fluid concept at best. The musicians decide that, not the music
 
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AudioWonderland said:
What the music "calls for" is an EXTREMELY fluid concept at best. The musicians decide that, not the music
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Sure music calls for certain things. Opera calls for something different than 1960's rock that calls for something different than fusion jazz. And then musicians interpret and reinterpret and re-invent. My jazz combo a few tunes we play as Latin grooves and also may swing the tune. On some we'll re-intrepret and do Latin on A's and swing the B's. It's fluid yes. But point here most pop and country tunes and lots of classic 60's rock well most everything played on radio for the last 60 years doesn't' have complicated fills. Never did. The original musicians didn't write the music with complicated fills in mind. Most as in 90%. Some outliers yes. You gotta look hard for the outliers. It's always been that way it ain't a new phenomena.

And define "fills". That's where we need to start. The fills I play are pretty easy transition points in a song, such as verse to chorus, A to B to A, where singing stops and a guitar/keys/trumpet/reed/ whatever starts soloing, and from one soloist to another, etc. Fills are during transitions. Usually 1 bar maybe 2. They're not drum solos they complement the music and signal a change.
 
Rattlin' Bones said:
Sure music calls for certain things. Opera calls for something different than 1960's rock that calls for something different than fusion jazz. And then musicians interpret and reinterpret and re-invent. My jazz combo a few tunes we play as Latin grooves and also may swing the tune. On some we'll re-intrepret and do Latin on A's and swing the B's. It's fluid yes. But point here most pop and country tunes and lots of classic 60's rock well most everything played on radio for the last 60 years doesn't' have complicated fills. Never did. The original musicians didn't write the music with complicated fills in mind. Most as in 90%. Some outliers yes. You gotta look hard for the outliers. It's always been that way it ain't a new phenomena.

And define "fills". That's where we need to start. The fills I play are pretty easy transition points in a song, such as verse to chorus, A to B to A, where singing stops and a guitar/keys/trumpet/reed/ whatever starts soloing, and from one soloist to another, etc. Fills are during transitions. Usually 1 bar maybe 2. They're not drum solos they complement the music and signal a change.
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The music does not even exist without the musicians. The musicians decide, not the music.
 
AudioWonderland said:
The music does not even exist without the musicians. The musicians decide, not the music.
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sorta....the genre/style definietly cretes the box for the musicians to make decisions in

and very few can make decisions way outside of that box that actually work
 
AudioWonderland said:
The music does not even exist without the musicians. The musicians decide, not the music.
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Not sure why you're so argumentative. Chill, dude.

Beethoven the musician decided there was no room for complicated drum fills in his music like his piano concertos lol.

Paul and John the musicians decided they didn't want any complicated drum fills in most of their music like when they wrote and then recorded Help and Ticket to Ride and a zillion other tunes.

Mack Gordon and Harry Warren the musicians decided they didn't want any complicated drum fills when they wrote Chattanooga Choo Choo. Another lol.

Extreme examples, but then again you're extremely argumentative over extremely thin air that doesn't really add to this discussion. Music does not exist without the musicians. Musicians decide. OK cool beans. 90% of all pop and most rock musicians decided they don't need or want complicated fills in their music. Does that make you feel validated?
 
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