I can’t hear the song start on the upbeat.

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I'm gonna stay out of the drum discussion. What I want to know is, is Madonna actually playing the guitar? Her hands say she might actually be.

And what's with the upside down crosses? Bigger than life at 0:17 seconds, behind her on the screen, is a giant, hollow, upside down cross. It isnt the only one hidden amongst all the little crosshairs flashing everywhere. What are you saying Madonna?
 

KamaK

Platinum Member
I'm gonna stay out of the drum discussion. What I want to know is, is Madonna actually playing the guitar? Her hands say she might actually be.

Indeed she is. Understand she's not a guitarist, she's a singer songwriter that happens to be playing guitar, and she's doing so well enough to entertain people.

For the OP. Upstroke kick licks can be counter intuitive for pop-rooted drummers. This was the lick that got my head turned around the right way.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Indeed she is. Understand she's not a guitarist, she's a singer songwriter that happens to be playing guitar, and she's doing so well enough to entertain people.
I thought she might be. Good for her, actually playing instead of pretending she is. She does better at guitar than I do, that's fa sho.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Starting from the beginning 37-ish times, I couldn't unhear the double-time punk beat with the odd shift to the "regular" beat either, until I let the song play through to the end. Then, the last 8 (?) bars, where it did it again, I heard the guitar riff in context of the tempo, and it immediately sounded like the quarter-note snare beat that it is. I then played it from the beginning a few times, and I heard it "correctly" every time. 🤷‍♂️
 
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brentcn

Platinum Member
Starting from the beginning 37-ish times, I couldn't unhear the double-time punk beat with the odd shift to the "regular" beat either, until I let the song play through to the end. Then, the last 8 (?) bars, where it did it again, I heard the guitar riff in context of the tempo, and it immediately sounded like the quarter-note snare beat that it is. I then played it from the beginning a few times, and I heard it "correctly" every time. ?‍♂️

Yeah, this will probably do the trick for the OP.

Other techniques include:

1) Counting out loud along with the music, while the music is playing more slowly (75% or 50% speed).
2) Grabbing a guitar and metronome, and learning that riff. It's just a few power chords, but if you wanted to just play the root notes, that would suffice.

Gotta say, if my band were playing a speed punk version of Borderline, I would put the snares on the upbeats (bc NoFX and Lagwagon). But for Madonna, or anyone who isn't used to fast polka beats, it's MUCH easier to stay oriented with snares on the downbeats.

Borderline is a great tune. Check out this arrangement, done by some local musician friends of mine here in MI.
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
Yep, i take everything back that i wrote before..

I kinda hate the song and have not even considered 1 second to finish till the end, but yes, is completely clear..

And yes, apparently at a Madonna show they actually try to create rhythmic illusions by accenting each time the “4-and” with a crash (thats at least how i interpretate this)..

Miracles still happen in this world..lol..
 

SomeBadDrummer

Well-known member
This song entro still gives me fits:
 
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SomeBadDrummer

Well-known member
These “offbeat” intros are actually quite simple once broken down, analyzed and studied repeatedly.
This graphic helps me tremendously and enables me to “see” the music exponentially clearer than sheet music. But it definitely takes some time and repetition for it to “click” in my head. Once that happens, it’s a cake walk.
Thanks for sharing!
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
This song i also heard wrong in the beginning, like my first replies show and which i admitted in my last reply..

But, with all respect, i have to disagree with the video and analyses above..

The song starts like this..:

CCDFD1A3-AAD7-4B96-A306-4C1BFD2A1A49.jpeg

Is 6 bars in 4/4 with the snare on all quarter notes (with a crash on each “4&”) and then to the normal rock beat..

Really is like that, which can be heard in the outro from the song too btw..🙂
 

Alain Rieder

Silver Member
This song i also heard wrong in the beginning, like my first replies show and which i admitted in my last reply..

But, with all respect, i have to disagree with the video and analyses above..

The song starts like this..:

View attachment 107800

Is 6 bars in 4/4 with the snare on all quarter notes (with a crash on each “4&”) and then to the normal rock beat..

Really is like that, which can be heard in the outro from the song too btw..🙂
You may be right, that would be an option, although I still feel that my option works better with the chord change on the first beat instead of the second one.
And you can clearly hear the drummer playing 1 2 3, before the start. To make sure, it would be interesting to hear more of what's happening before this excerpt. Is it from a DVD?
If the drummer played an extra HH sound before the three that we can hear, that would indicate that the riff starts on the & of 4, like you said.
If there's only a three-beat count-in, the riff starts on the & of 3.
 

Alain Rieder

Silver Member
Here is a version with a more clear count-off regarding this..


Yes I agree with you, in your example a four-beat count-in is clearly heard, and I was just about to post the following link which is the same concert as before, but here you can hear a four-beat count-in as well. This is the full video, but I made the link start just before the beginning of this particular song.


So I was mistaken by the missing first beat of the count-in, my video is actually wrong and I will take it off I guess.
 
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