How to practice push-pull technique?

T

T-1000

Senior Member
If wanting to practice push pull technique to gains speed - what tempo would you play at - and how many minutes per day would be optimal to practice? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 2 hours?

And would you use a bpm on the edge of where you're comfortable playing for that time period with good technique?
 
I enjoyed playing along to songs with steady 16th note hihat patterns. This depends on your taste but 'ain't no sunshine bill withers is a good starting point then on to "the chicken" jacko pastorias
 
One note per second is a good place to start. Exaggerate the motions. I recommend practicing it in the air to begin with. Bobbing your body a little bit in time with the beat will help
 
T-1000 said:
And would you use a bpm on the edge of where you're comfortable playing for that time period with good technique?
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I have heard it said that after several minutes at a BPM with no mistakes, then up the tempo incrementally by 5 BPM. Sustain that for "x" number of minutes then move up again by 5 BPM. Mistakes would mean dropping the tempo back to a comfortable tempo where no mistakes are made.

Beyond that, there's no magic formula other than incremental steady practice, building from slower to faster tempos.
 
To me I see a lot of similarities in Push pull and Moeller-just degrees. When I play fast 16th notes on hats its not so much Push/pull (open close fingers) as the angle of my wrist pump action and my fingers just create the open-close space for stick to oscillate. I guess my fingers still do it but feels like more wrists dribbling the stick (but there is open and close more I think about it). Nevermind. You ever try the single handed roll where you play off the rim moving fulcrum forward of stick? That Yoni Mader (name spelling??) fella can do it without touching the rim-looks like he uses Push pull and fingers and somehow move fulcrum forward of hand to rim level and does the single handed roll-frigging impressive as heck to me. I've been trying to figure it out and I can do it for a millisecond or two with more a snake-like action and finger action-you can feel the fulcrum move forward and stick start dribbling just like hitting the rim. He's got great technique and finger control-I don't have that much finger strength anymore. I think Push pull is spot on with slow and exaggerated-you build cerebellum motor memory-and you'll fine tune in practice going up to speed when it will just naturally come easier.

LOL I bet there is ten million videos explaining the PP technique-great way to get lost. Sure enough there are. Just pulled up Stanton Moore-an excellent pro-and his take from Jo Jo to developing his own version that works for him-exemplifying what I was saying about how you'll naturally find what works for you just like he did
 
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Tamboreter said:
I have heard it said that after several minutes at a BPM with no mistakes, then up the tempo incrementally by 5 BPM. Sustain that for "x" number of minutes then move up again by 5 BPM. Mistakes would mean dropping the tempo back to a comfortable tempo where no mistakes are made.

Beyond that, there's no magic formula other than incremental steady practice, building from slower to faster tempos.
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That's half of it. Or more like 90%. Generally, for some smaller portion of your practice, it's a good idea to push for pure speed just outside of your comfort zone.

With push-pull specifically, there's a big difference between playing 4-8 notes very quickly and keeping a steady rhythm. You need to practice both. And you also need to practice accents, which may mean dropping far below your steady rhythm tempo.

The best way to practice push-pull is to go through as many permutations as possible (bunch of stuff works that way). Very easy to hit a wall otherwise.
 
I've tried many of the PP techniques shown on YT for years but can't seem to nail it by myself! Probably need a one on one in person with someone really qualified to actually teach it.
The watching of videos doesn't really ingrain into my actual playing the technique itself.
It also appears most techniques utilize a french style grip, but when I use that I slip back into more of a traditional matched grip soon. I haven't heard an explanation it is a french grip style but all show the thumb on top.
So I've been stuck using matched grip and playing faster grooves with a more simplified rhythmic pattern, broken up 8ths instead of steady 8ths, etc.
 
newoldie said:
I've tried many of the PP techniques shown on YT for years but can't seem to nail it by myself! Probably need a one on one in person with someone really qualified to actually teach it.
The watching of videos doesn't really ingrain into my actual playing the technique itself.
It also appears most techniques utilize a french style grip, but when I use that I slip back into more of a traditional matched grip soon. I haven't heard an explanation it is a french grip style but all show the thumb on top.
Click to expand...
T-1000 said:
If wanting to practice push pull technique to gains speed - what tempo would you play at - and how many minutes per day would be optimal to practice? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 2 hours?
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Here's an old thread on push pull technique, with some good info. Hope this helps!
https://www.drummerworld.com/forums...l-single-hand-16ths-help.187205/#post-2052561

@Jonathan Curtis has a video in the above thread that is very worthwhile.
 
Oh man love Ramon Montagner brush work on older thread. I use push pull for double stroke rolls with brushes but mostly now I’m twitching brushes even if playing a pattern. INow I practice rudiments with brushes striking like a stick and then twitching rudiments. I can’t strike a decent triple stroke roll with brushes to save me but double stroke sounds great. Now I can play a good double and triple stroke twitching my brushes. When I play to music I strike,slide and twitch brushes to faster tempo stuff. Sorry didn’t mean to hijack thread.
 
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GetAgrippa said:
Oh man love Ramon Montagner brush work on older thread. I use push pull for double stroke rolls with brushes but mostly now I’m twitching brushes even if playing a pattern. INow I practice rudiments with brushes striking like a stick and then twitching rudiments. I can’t strike a decent triple stroke roll with brushes to save me but double stroke sounds great. Now I can play a good double and triple stroke twitching my brushes. When I play to music I strike,slide and twitch brushes to faster tempo stuff. Sorry didn’t mean to hijack thread.
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Ramon is the absolute EMPEROR of push-pull lol
 
newoldie said:
I've tried many of the PP techniques shown on YT for years but can't seem to nail it by myself! Probably need a one on one in person with someone really qualified to actually teach it.
The watching of videos doesn't really ingrain into my actual playing the technique itself.
It also appears most techniques utilize a french style grip, but when I use that I slip back into more of a traditional matched grip soon. I haven't heard an explanation it is a french grip style but all show the thumb on top.
So I've been stuck using matched grip and playing faster grooves with a more simplified rhythmic pattern, broken up 8ths instead of steady 8ths, etc.
Click to expand...
I also cycle through these videos, trying to learn and absorb what I can. When I'm on overload, I stop watching. Then a few years later I come back and listen again only to find that some concept I previously did not understand becomes crystal clear and I can execute it. Some of these things take time and a lot of practice. Working with a teacher can definitely speed up the process.
 
Tamboreter said:
I also cycle through these videos, trying to learn and absorb what I can. When I'm on overload, I stop watching. Then a few years later I come back and listen again only to find that some concept I previously did not understand becomes crystal clear and I can execute it. Some of these things take time and a lot of practice. Working with a teacher can definitely speed up the process.
Click to expand...

Same. It’s really important to take time away, on multiple levels.
 
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