How often do Meinl Byzance break?

veecharlie

Senior Member
Hey guys,

I'm considering replacing all my cymbals for Byzance. Wondering how quick do they break?

Here is the reason why I'm asking: I never broke a cymbal by myself, use correct technique, bla bla. However, knowing many manufacturers have inconsistent lathing and mixture, I am curious to know about it. Big brands don't have this issue normally, but Meinl cymbals were initially produced by Diril, which have the same inconsistency issues as most of the Turkish "b brands".

I'm looking to know if anyone had a bad experience here, what did meinl do about it and especially your experience with cymbal weight distribution, bending, cracks due to the cymbal itself.

Thanks !
 

iCe

Senior Member
I used Meinl (Classics) for a couple of years and never had problems. Used Turkish Cymbals before those and cracked 5 cymbals due to manufacturing flaws.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
It all depends on who is playing them. No one can say one cymbal brand is "stronger" or "weaker" than another. Heavy rock cymbals can crack under a heavy hand, some thin cymbals may never break under a delicate hand. You just play them and hope for the best.

I have broken a few 16" medium Zildjian crash cymbls back in the day, but over the last 10 years I haven't cracked or broken a cymbal. Maybe I'm not hitting as hard, maybe I'm using better technique, maybe I'm using more appropriate cymbals for the music I'm playing. I don't know. It just is what it is.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
It all depends on who is playing them. No one can say one cymbal brand is "stronger" or "weaker" than another. Heavy rock cymbals can crack under a heavy hand, some thin cymbals may never break under a delicate hand. You just play them and hope for the best.

I have broken a few 16" medium Zildjian crash cymbls back in the day, but over the last 10 years I haven't cracked or broken a cymbal. Maybe I'm not hitting as hard, maybe I'm using better technique, maybe I'm using more appropriate cymbals for the music I'm playing. I don't know. It just is what it is.
Well... true. But my point is a different one. My point is about quality, physics. Poor craftsmanship will break your cymbals quicker, as I said...
Also, thinner cymbals are by physics more “resistant” from breaking, why? Due to the ability to release the energy easier (allows it to vibrate a lot more “freely”) because of the chemical structure of metals. If a cymbal bends, means there are weak points, inconsistencies. That can be either due to an unequal weight distribution, poor hammering techniques or poor lathing.

If it breaks, you can quickly analyze the reason why, starting by the crack itself. many (at least decent companies) have replacement warranty policies covering such defects. (Happens from time to time, what’s perfect in an imperfect world?)

There’s a big difference in quality control with Turkish stuff, I have seen some really poor job and also amazing from the same factory. Even on the same series, I once got in the shop two completely different cymbals with different lathing and hammering from the same serie.

Sure, if I hit as hard as a chimpanzee, it will break or bend sooner or later, no matter what cymbal. But my question and hypothesis on Meinl cymbals is taken ASSUMING you hit them correctly, maintain them good and of course, don’t behave like a torture machine on the stage.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
Well... true. But my point is a different one. My point is about quality, physics. Poor craftsmanship will break your cymbals quicker, as I said...
Also, thinner cymbals are by physics more “resistant” from breaking, why? Due to the ability to release the energy easier (allows it to vibrate a lot more “freely”) because of the chemical structure of metals. If a cymbal bends, means there are weak points, inconsistencies. That can be either due to an unequal weight distribution, poor hammering techniques or poor lathing.

If it breaks, you can quickly analyze the reason why, starting by the crack itself. many (at least decent companies) have replacement warranty policies covering such defects. (Happens from time to time, what’s perfect in an imperfect world?)

There’s a big difference in quality control with Turkish stuff, I have seen some really poor job and also amazing from the same factory. Even on the same series, I once got in the shop two completely different cymbals with different lathing and hammering from the same serie.

Sure, if I hit as hard as a chimpanzee, it will break or bend sooner or later, no matter what cymbal. But my question and hypothesis on Meinl cymbals is taken ASSUMING you hit them correctly, maintain them good and of course, don’t behave like a torture machine on the stage.
In that case, I don't hear of Meinl Byzance cymbals breaking more often than other cymbals from Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste or others.
 

Soulfinger

Senior Member
Q: How often do Meinl Byzance break?
A:Usually once, then I throw them away.

SCNR. :)

Never heard of Meinls being more fragile than other brands. Had a couple of Byzances and no issues.
Meinl and Diril parted ways in 2008, I think. The company that had troubles with Diril blanks was Paiste - apparently a couple of Twenty series cymbals broke due to manufacturing issues (I have three Twenty crashes and they are doing just fine, BTW).

Personally, I think the primary reason for drummers breaking cymbals is not so much bad technique, but choosing the wrong cymbals for the job (or being unable to afford the right ones). If you try to coax a ear-splitting, cutting crash sound from, say, a Byzance Extra Dry Thin Crash, you will eventually kill it because it was not designed to deliver that kind of sound.
I had to play a set of ZBTs in a rehearsal room once and now I know why so many of them break - because, being cheap cymbals, they don´t open up very well. So you hit harder trying to make them speak which of course won´t work, and in the long run they give up.
 

Naigewron

Platinum Member
I've played primarily Byzance cymbals for many years, and from my experience the lathed ones are very resilient, while the raw ones are more "brittle" and tend to break more easily. I'm guessing that might because the lathed ones are somehow softer, so they flex more.

I've broken a few Byzances in my time, but I played like an absolute caveman for long periods of time. I would have broken manhole covers the way I played, especially live. I still hit very hard, but with a bit more control, and these days they tend to last indefinitely. Haven't broken a Byzance for many years.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
I don’t own Meinl, but there’s enough buzz about the thin HHX Evolution series I own breaking...

https://youtu.be/0Ddr_ipAMqE

Here’s a worthwhile video to watch in full, because it’s interesting, but starting at 3:00 minutes there’s slow motion footage of the effects of sticks on heads and cymbals.

I’m sure alloys differ making some lines more fragile than others, but I’m going with technique all the way. Allowing cymbals to flex on their own rather than forcing the stick through them is going to be a much greater factor.

Two years with my Evos and no issues, where others report them breaking over and over. It’d be the same with Meinl.
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
I'm sure if they had a poor reputation for breaking, it would been brought up long before this thread. If you like the way they sound, go get them and don't worry about them breaking.

Drums and cymbals are tools. Use them in a way that helps to express who you are, and when they break, go buy more. They make new ones every day.
 

Adam Ray

Junior Member
So I’ve have used a large number of Byzance cymbals for years and only had a couple of issues.

One cymbal I got was really unbalanced. Literally wouldn’t sit flat on a stand. As it was an online purchase and I got it swapped out for another which was absolutely fine and is still going strong now. If you are trying in a shop look out for weight issues/balance issues; nearly all of them are perfectly fine but all handmade cymbals have slight consistency variations. If you buy online try and use a reputable company with good refund/replacement terms. I wasn’t so lucky with the retailer offering an exchange but Meinl directly provided a new one under warranty.

The other issue I had was a 18” China that cracked. Was replaced for free under the two year warranty. This is the only cymbal I have ever cracked so it must have been a lathing issue.

Every other cymbal I’ve had from the Byzance line has been absolutely perfect.

In my experience the quality from Meinl has been fantastic, and even when I’ve encountered issues they have always looked after me and sent replacements.
 

VitalTransformation

Silver Member
Also, thinner cymbals are by physics more “resistant” from breaking, why? Due to the ability to release the energy easier (allows it to vibrate a lot more “freely”) because of the chemical structure of metals.
I've seen this statement on here many times, but I'm not sure I buy it. I've cracked exactly two cymbals in my 25 years of drumming and they were both very thin A custom crashes (a 16" 'Fast' crash and an 18" regular crash).

I just cannot see myself being able to break the much heavier Paiste RUDE's and Zildjian Z's that I've played.

I’ve also seen quite a few halves of splashes (which are thin by definition) lying around in rehearsal rooms...
 
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dwdrummerky

Senior Member
I've seen this statement on here many times, but I'm not sure I buy it. I've cracked exactly two cymbals in my 25 years of drumming and they were both very thin A custom crashes (a 16" 'Fast' crash and an 18" regular crash).

I just cannot see myself being able to break the much heavier Paiste RUDE's and Zildjian Z's that I've played.

I’ve also seen quite a few halves of splashes (which are thin by definition) lying around in rehearsal rooms...
IMO you are correct on this. There is no way a Rude Crash/Ride, or Zil A Rock Crashes are cracking or denting like an A Paper Thin, or 2oo2 Thin crash. Just because the cymbal flexes, does not equal more durable.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
Again, it depends on the player, their technique and their touch. It's dumb to use really thin crashes with 2B stick and play death metal. You are going to break cymbals that way. It's also dumb to use thicker 16" crashes with tightly wound wing nuts and bad technique. You are going to break the cymbal. It's also dumb to use splashes like crash cymbals beating them over and over again. They are going to break.

Use common sense, use proper technique, and use the proper cymbals for the job. If you do this you should rarely crack or break a cymbal. Yes it may still happen one day, but you should have gotten lots of use out of the cymbal before anything happened.
 

petrez

Senior Member
I did crack a 19" Byzance Medium Thin Traditional crash once, but I bought it used so it might have endured bad playing before I got it, never know. Have had several others without breaking any, so I don`t think they are in any way worse than others. Been years since I cracked my last cymbal now (knock on wood), I play metal so I decided to go with Paiste Rude Crashes, and after that have not had one crack at all. So yeah, definately go with the Byzance if you like the sound. Make sure you do not mount them too tight and overhit them, and they should last for a long while.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
I've seen this statement on here many times, but I'm not sure I buy it. I've cracked exactly two cymbals in my 25 years of drumming and they were both very thin A custom crashes (a 16" 'Fast' crash and an 18" regular crash).

I just cannot see myself being able to break the much heavier Paiste RUDE's and Zildjian Z's that I've played.

I’ve also seen quite a few halves of splashes (which are thin by definition) lying around in rehearsal rooms...
IMO you are correct on this. There is no way a Rude Crash/Ride, or Zil A Rock Crashes are cracking or denting like an A Paper Thin, or 2oo2 Thin crash. Just because the cymbal flexes, does not equal more durable.


Its pretty easy to break any cymbal if you know what can easily cause breaking.

If a cymbal is in flex (just hit- flexing), and its struck again immediately, there's a 95% increase in the chance of breakage.

Single strokes on any cymbal aren't a big risk, the big risk is impacting the cymbal while its flexing.

I agree due to manufacturing, some cymbals are more prone to cracking than others, so IMO the OP's question is a legit concern.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osFBNLA7woY&t=0m45s
 

mikyok

Platinum Member
As long as you're hitting with a glancing blow across the cymbal then they'll last a lifetime. Hit through the cymbal and then you're playing an expensive game.

Before I did this I used to break cymbals, since 2005 I've cracked 1 top hi hat which was 2nd hand off a really heavy player.

Used a Byzance Dry Ride for 14 years on/off as a crash and ride. It's in the bag for tomorrows gig.

There's a really old saying here, if it aint broke don't fix it!
 

VitalTransformation

Silver Member
Good points about technique, Tommy, Les and Mikyok.

But back to the notion that thinner cymbals are more resistant to breaking than heavier ones? If a drummer is spending $$$ breaking his heavy "rock" cymbals all the time, is "get thinner cymbals" actually valid advice? I'm just not feeling it...
 
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