How much practice on a new tune with & without metronome?

[KJIB]

So I am beginner / intermediate & learning a few manageable cover tunes to play with other musicians. I use "Moises" to play the track we're learning when not with the other people I play with so can switch on/off the drums & a metronome track.

Lately I've been practicing in 3 ways:-
(1) with everything including the drum track (so I can hear when I'm missing something) and a metronome track.
(2) I also practice with vocals & other instrument but no drum track but with the metronome and
(3) finally I practice with vocals & other instruments but no drum track & no metronome track & hope that I finish when the song does.

I'm wondering what peoples thoughts are on the amount of each type of practice I should do as I progress:
(A) when learning the tune & that tune is new to me for playing on the drums
(B) getting closer to a practice session with the other people I'm playing the tunes with and
(C) near ready for a performance night, (when we just play tunes at a pub jam).

Thoughts for how best to mix things up to learn most effectively?

 

[Larry]

Beginner = metronome.

Musical time...I needed a metronome to show me what steady time is supposed is supposed to sound like.

I'd say the met should take priority, especially as a beginner. But I'm not a teacher.

 

[dcrigger]

Thoughts on 1, 2 and 3...

1. Why with a metronome track? The drums are there - so IMO the metronome hinders the process of training yourself to hear the time within the music by handing it to you on a platter.

2. This works as a way of flying solo without the drums - but personally I've never found it that necessary (or particularly useful - unless I'm planning on playing something significantly different than the drummer is playing on the original)

3. Not a great idea overall IMO... It works fine if the rest of the band is laying down a clearly defined groove.... But if that's not the case, in sections where thing aren't so clear, it can encourage the habit of "chasing" the band. Playing with recordings is never truly like "driving the bus" - but when playing along with the original drummer, I always try and feel like he and I are teaming up in driving the bus. I sort of "shadow" his bus driving - trying to emulate/copy the feel of his driving of the bus.

I love the technology of auto beat detection and the ability to split tracks - incredibly useful stuff that I use in my studio all of the time. But for drum practice.... I see little point in fiddling with it. Every minute I would spend getting it set-up is time I could just be using playing along and learning. For me, every bit of time I spend learning new material or practicing to recordings (which I do a lot), I do with the original recording with the drums included and no metronome.

While an essential tool for recording and some practice, the metronome does nothing but mask my ability to really hear into the music - what the drummer's playing, how it fits in with bass, the other parts. The time is right there - In The Music. If it is hard to hear and play along with - then that's exactly what you need to work on. Turning on the metronome just makes it easy - as I really no longer have to listen ti the music to hear the time.... the metronome is feeding it directly to me.

So my advice is - at every phase A, B and C - play along with the original recording as-is.

 

[Hollywood Jim]

Thoughts on 1, 2 and 3...

1. Why with a metronome track? The drums are there - so IMO the metronome hinders the process of training yourself to hear the time within the music by handing it to you on a platter.

2. This works as a way of flying solo without the drums - but personally I've never found it that necessary (or particularly useful - unless I'm planning on playing something significantly different than the drummer is playing on the original)

3. Not a great idea overall IMO... It works fine if the rest of the band is laying down a clearly defined groove.... But if that's not the case, in sections where thing aren't so clear, it can encourage the habit of "chasing" the band. Playing with recordings is never truly like "driving the bus" - but when playing along with the original drummer, I always try and feel like he and I are teaming up in driving the bus. I sort of "shadow" his bus driving - trying to emulate/copy the feel of his driving of the bus.

I love the technology of auto beat detection and the ability to split tracks - incredibly useful stuff that I use in my studio all of the time. But for drum practice.... I see little point in fiddling with it. Every minute I would spend getting it set-up is time I could just be using playing along and learning. For me, every bit of time I spend learning new material or practicing to recordings (which I do a lot), I do with the original recording with the drums included and no metronome.

While an essential tool for recording and some practice, the metronome does nothing but mask my ability to really hear into the music - what the drummer's playing, how it fits in with bass, the other parts. The time is right there - In The Music. If it is hard to hear and play along with - then that's exactly what you need to work on. Turning on the metronome just makes it easy - as I really no longer have to listen ti the music to hear the time.... the metronome is feeding it directly to me.

So my advice is - at every phase A, B and C - play along with the original recording as-is.

I agree.

But you still might want to practice playing a drum beat with a metronome and no music . Because if you play in a band with others the solid tempo is your responsibility.

Get the phone app called "Live BPM" and use that when you practice without music and when you play with the band. It will tell you if you going off tempo. By the way, going off tempo a couple of Beats Per Minute is OK.


.

 

[ColdFusion]

I tend to agree, if you already have the songs with and without drums, the metronome may be just an extra noise in this situation. You perhaps don't need to be focusing on that click sound when you ought to be focusing on the sound of the band, and yourself in it.

You indicated that you can get lost like you don't know when the song ends. You said this happens when you play with no drumtrack and no click. It's the original drumtrack that is probably keeping you on point for where the changes and sections are. I would recommend you learn the song by heart before trying to stitch it together with a complicated ritual of practicing it a bunch of different ways.

Metronomes can be crucial in a couple scenarios. First of all while you are just practicing drums-only with no accompaniment ("shedding"). It's a good thing to get into a quiet room with some drums or pads and let a metronome kick your ass until you can skip along with it at total ease (see Vinnie quote). This is even better than "burying" the metronome, it really is more like being friends with it, lol.

But you still might want to practice playing a drum beat with a metronome and no music . Because if you play in a band with others the solid tempo is your responsibility.

That's it!

---------------------------------

The other scenario where I use a metronome is when recording. If someone sends me a stem track with guitars on it (bass and or/rhythm), I will set a clicker in the background while I'm tracking the song. This way I can allow myself to "flow" with the music, not play stiffly. But at the same time the metronome is present and I'm regularly referring to it, so I don't slip off the pocket in my improvising. Clickers are awesome for recording decent drum tracks in fewer takes.

 

[OHD]

Agree, full song + metronome is overkill.

I don't use the click a lot, just when I want to check my accuracy with unusual patterns or polyrhythms. I prefer to use music as my metronome.

BTW, if you want to train your memory, do this: play through the song without any reference at all. Record yourself and check with a chart to see if you messed anything up.