How do you practice this style... ?uestlove

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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I just sent an email to Robert Diggs (aka RZA) ....one of the pioneers of these type of drum beats.....just to get his thoughts on the discussion
I'll post his response when he finds the time to get back to me.

he is good about responding ...he is an acquaintance
 
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poika

Silver Member
I just sent an email to Robert Diggs (aka RZA) ....one of the pioneers of these type of drum beats.....just to get his thoughts on the discussion
I'll post his response when he finds the time to get back to me.

he is good about responding ...he is an acquaintance
That's cool!

That dude is definitely someone to look up to, beat wise.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
I just sent an email to Robert Diggs (aka RZA) ....one of the pioneers of these type of drum beats.....just to get his thoughts on the discussion
I'll post his response when he finds the time to get back to me.

he is good about responding ...he is an acquaintance
Pulling an Annie Hall, are you? ;-)

I'm sure he'll have a good laugh, but I look forward to hearing what he has to say. RZA, if you're reading, I love the Monk sample on Shame On A N___.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
ha...nice!!!
love Woody
Yeah! I just don't want to be the professor guy-- that's not where I'm coming from in this discussion. I'm not an academic-- all this stuff is in service of being a creative artist. You already know that, but I want to make sure it's clear to the peanut gallery...
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Yeah! I just don't want to be the professor guy-- that's not where I'm coming from in this discussion. I'm not an academic-- all this stuff is in service of being a creative artist. You already know that, but I want to make sure it's clear to the peanut gallery...
absolutely

my stance is purely trying address the original question.....and being very familiar with this style since it's inception I truly feel qualified to speak on it.

there are plenty of things spoken about around here that I do not feel qualified to speak on .....so I don't ....I simply read and learn from those who seem to be in the know.

I wish more people would do the same

I would say there is about a 60/40 ratio around here of people speaking knowledge to people talking out of their necks on certain subjects

I'm all about the integrity of the creative artist ......I truly live for it and make my living protecting it ...... but sometimes there is just blatant misinformation being spewed on this forum and it makes me concerned for the person asking the question looking for educated answers .

you will not see me spewing nonsense in a thread about double bass speed , metal drumming, blast beats, gravity blasts, stick tricks, refinishing shells, cutting bearing edges, etc. etc.,.......not my strong suit so I don't speak on it ......
I even try my best to stay out of technique discussions because it is a bit like talking about politics, religion , and chiropractics in a bar.......

but Hip Hop, Jazz, R&B, some rock .....thats my life....thats why I breathe

I feel it is all of our duty to protect the integrity of this place by providing solid information that comes from experience

I truly appreciate that when I read about a subject I may not be well versed in
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
absolutely

my stance is purely trying address the original question.....and being very familiar with this style since it's inception I truly feel qualified to speak on it.

there are plenty of things spoken about around here that I do not feel qualified to speak on .....so I don't ....I simply read and learn from those who seem to be in the know.

I wish more people would do the same

I would say there is about a 60/40 ratio around here of people speaking knowledge to people talking out of their necks on certain subjects

I'm all about the integrity of the creative artist ......I truly live for it and make my living protecting it ...... but sometimes there is just blatant misinformation being spewed on this forum and it makes me concerned for the person asking the question looking for educated answers .

you will not see me spewing nonsense in a thread about double bass speed , metal drumming, blast beats, gravity blasts, stick tricks, refinishing shells, cutting bearing edges, etc. etc.,.......not my strong suit so I don't speak on it ......
I even try my best to stay out of technique discussions because it is a bit like talking about politics, religion , and chiropractics in a bar.......

but Hip Hop, Jazz, R&B, some rock .....thats my life....thats why I breathe

I feel it is all of our duty to protect the integrity of this place by providing solid information that comes from experience

I truly appreciate that when I read about a subject I may not be well versed in
I understand what you are saying, but I didn't see anyone jump on this thread and say "I am the expert at this," and then give incorrect information. It seemed to me just a bunch of guys trying to offer suggestions. Always tricky on the web, because you don't know the background or skill level of the people involved.

Not all of us have high levels of musical education, but I don't think that should eliminate anyone from trying to help, if they have a suggestion.

I for one wouldn't want only experts to be allowed to contribute. I've learned a lot about terminology and the origins of some of these techniques and feels because of the discussion that went on, whereas if someone just came in and gave one definitive answer I might not have even been interested in the thread.

Just my thoughts. Carry on!
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I understand what you are saying, but I didn't see anyone jump on this thread and say "I am the expert at this," and then give incorrect information. It seemed to me just a bunch of guys trying to offer suggestions. Always tricky on the web, because you don't know the background or skill level of the people involved.

Not all of us have high levels of musical education, but I don't think that should eliminate anyone from trying to help, if they have a suggestion.

I for one wouldn't want only experts to be allowed to contribute. I've learned a lot about terminology and the origins of some of these techniques and feels because of the discussion that went on, whereas if someone just came in and gave one definitive answer I might not have even been interested in the thread.

Just my thoughts. Carry on!
never said anything about musical education or experts......and of course everyone should offer suggestions

I was simply stating my opinion
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
never said anything about musical education or experts......and of course everyone should offer suggestions

I was simply stating my opinion
Sure, I get that. And you stated it extremely politely, too. Which is cool, and appreciated.

I was just disagreeing with your wish that people would NOT speak up unless they are "qualified." Me, I am happy to have anyone's input that is interested enough to contribute. I can decide for myself if it is helpful to me or not.

It is just a different point of view, that's all. I do respect your opinion, though, and appreciate you sharing your knowledge here.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
Sure, I get that. And you stated it extremely politely, too. Which is cool, and appreciated.

I was just disagreeing with your wish that people would NOT speak up unless they are "qualified." Me, I am happy to have anyone's input that is interested enough to contribute. I can decide for myself if it is helpful to me or not.

It is just a different point of view, that's all. I do respect your opinion, though, and appreciate you sharing your knowledge here.
point taken

and I appreciate your input as well

as long as someones input is coming from experience I'm all for it.....again just my opinion
 
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absolutely

my stance is purely trying address the original question.....and being very familiar with this style since it's inception I truly feel qualified to speak on it.

there are plenty of things spoken about around here that I do not feel qualified to speak on .....so I don't ....I simply read and learn from those who seem to be in the know.

I wish more people would do the same

I would say there is about a 60/40 ratio around here of people speaking knowledge to people talking out of their necks on certain subjects

I'm all about the integrity of the creative artist ......I truly live for it and make my living protecting it ...... but sometimes there is just blatant misinformation being spewed on this forum and it makes me concerned for the person asking the question looking for educated answers .

you will not see me spewing nonsense in a thread about double bass speed , metal drumming, blast beats, gravity blasts, stick tricks, refinishing shells, cutting bearing edges, etc. etc.,.......not my strong suit so I don't speak on it ......
I even try my best to stay out of technique discussions because it is a bit like talking about politics, religion , and chiropractics in a bar.......

but Hip Hop, Jazz, R&B, some rock .....thats my life....thats why I breathe

I feel it is all of our duty to protect the integrity of this place by providing solid information that comes from experience

I truly appreciate that when I read about a subject I may not be well versed in
^This

Im in the same position and share you passion on it. I understand and know first hand how people learn differently. However, there really is no way around listening to hip hop beats and developing a feel for it. The issue of "glitch beat" for drummers is mirrored by "neo-soul chords" for guitars and keys. Its a vocabulary still in development that is rooted not only in soul music but soul & jazz having been manipulated by hip hop producers (ie J Dilla, Q-Tip, Ali Muhammad etc). That's where we're getting the Robert Glaspers, Chris Dave's and Karriem Riggins There are no charts or "theory" books that will guide you through playing songs that where produced not using a Maj or Min scale, but 16 levels on the MPC or the De tuned sampled key settings (on the EPS for the RZA sound).


You have to get the music into you and feel it. JoJo Mayer has talked about this in why its better to learn how to program beats if you're going to emulate a drum machines behavior.


IMHO there's no way around this.
 
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Aeolian

Platinum Member
Ah, I love a good internet tussle with self styled experts. Whatever dude, it's not worth my energy. I am a guitar player who doubles on drums. I have played with various people doing neo-soul and hip hop around the SF/Oakland bay area. And for some of those people, they could explain that some bit was a sixteenth before the 2, or the 2nd beat of a quarter note triplet. Which made it much easier for other folks to get on the same page. As opposed to "you just got to feel it man, spend 15 years listing to 'my indie album that's so much cooler than yours', The OP asked how can you learn to do this, and this is how I learned it so that I could hang at the Juneteenth or some other festival in Oakland. I am not by nature an analytical sort of person, but there are times when it serves as a faster track to getting something.
 
Ah, I love a good internet tussle with self styled experts. Whatever dude, it's not worth my energy. I am a guitar player who doubles on drums. I have played with various people doing neo-soul and hip hop around the SF/Oakland bay area. And for some of those people, they could explain that some bit was a sixteenth before the 2, or the 2nd beat of a quarter note triplet. Which made it much easier for other folks to get on the same page. As opposed to "you just got to feel it man, spend 15 years listing to 'my indie album that's so much cooler than yours', The OP asked how can you learn to do this, and this is how I learned it so that I could hang at the Juneteenth or some other festival in Oakland. I am not by nature an analytical sort of person, but there are times when it serves as a faster track to getting something.
Seriously?

I enjoy reading your post and respect your opinion. But on this issue, you're starting to sound like those young drummers who are determined to not play/practice with a metronome. I agree that for playing a particular glitch pattern transcription can be your friend as with any other pattern that seems "mysterious".

In the countless times I've heard Jojo attempt to explain his playing and how drummers can approach playing DnB or any other electronic based style, even when he's in a room full of drummers, his explanation revolves around concepts normal to sequencing and not drum notation/language. The reason is simple.....at the end of the day that is what you (the drummer) are trying to emulate.

Im seriously not understating why this is so difficult?

but alas! My Jedi senses tell me there will soon be a new addition to the great debates of drumming history....

How do you learn to groove and what is a groove?

What is "the pocket"?

And in a brand new term coined in this post exclusively on Drummerworld........

How do you groove in the "glitch pocket"?

I read the OP's post as asking the last question. The style glitch playing, you gotta understand the glitches.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
there are plenty of things spoken about around here that I do not feel qualified to speak on .....so I don't ....I simply read and learn from those who seem to be in the know.

I wish more people would do the same

I would say there is about a 60/40 ratio around here of people speaking knowledge to people talking out of their necks on certain subjects
I agree, and hope you don't think I was putting myself forward as an expert in this style of music-- I tried to make that clear at every point in the discussion. I'm happy to be educated about anything to do with music, but if I don't hear the kind of information I'm looking for, I start making my own analysis, because what I do is try to figure things out. I hope at this point in my career I'm skilled enough with my ears and my knowledge of the instrument, that I'm able to say something of value about someone hitting the drums, even without a lot background in the style. I guess not, in this case.

And it seems that some people think there's some kind fight going on here, when there isn't. All this is is discussion of something important.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
I am not a hip hop guy by any means but I am a "subdivisions guy". I've been working with the rhythmic scales from 1-19 over 1-4 beats for over 10 years and I can definitely say that what Chris Dave was doing in that video was not coming from that world.

In other words his rhythmic phrases were not necessarily whole number ratios of each other.

The resolution was to the quarter note. That is what gives it cohesiveness .

Just absolutely mindblowing by the way.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I agree, and hope you don't think I was putting myself forward as an expert in this style of music-- I tried to make that clear at every point in the discussion. I'm happy to be educated about anything to do with music, but if I don't hear the kind of information I'm looking for, I start making my own analysis, because what I do is try to figure things out. I hope at this point in my career I'm skilled enough with my ears and my knowledge of the instrument, that I'm able to say something of value about someone hitting the drums, even without a lot background in the style. I guess not, in this case.

And it seems that some people think there's some kind fight going on here, when there isn't. All this is is discussion of something important.

Todd
my statement was not geared toward you in the least.....I hope you didn't get that vibe
I have the utmost respect for you and your playing and read closely everything you write here because of that deep respect .

someone like you offering suggestions I would listen to if it was a style you had never even heard of because of your level of experience and level headed manner

I hope you do not think anything I said was directed at you ....not the case at all

if you said to practice double strokes with hammers I would probably go to the hardware store and give it a shot

:)
 

jodgey4

Silver Member
I've been in NYC since midweek, so I just now am getting to respond. Anthony, I'm really looking forward to Diggs' response... who better to ask? Thanks for your great input. Understanding the technology that drove this style is a great foundation it would seem.
I think the most useful exercises for me have been to play with looser or tighter flams, and an exercise where you set a metronome, play a 16th note groove, and over four bars transition to a swung 16th feel, catching every variation in between. Just some ideas...
Edit: and thinking of playing individual beats on top of the beat or behind. Being able to switch between the two without a change in tempo is IMO one of the best skills to have as a drummer in general.
 
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A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
I've been in NYC since midweek, so I just now am getting to respond. Anthony, I'm really looking forward to Diggs' response... who better to ask? Thanks for your great input. Understanding the technology that drove this style is a great foundation it would seem.
I think the most useful exercises for me have been to play with looser or tighter flams, and an exercise where you set a metronome, play a 16th note groove, and over four bars transition to a swung 16th feel, catching every variation in between. Just some ideas...
i got an email from DIggs this morning ......nothing insightful really unfortunately

he just copy an pasted one of my responses from this thread and wrote under it

you're a funny guy

...so nothing real useful there :)

but he obviously read at least some of the thread
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
i got an email from DIggs this morning ......nothing insightful really unfortunately

he just copy an pasted one of my responses from this thread and wrote under it

you're a funny guy

...so nothing real useful there :)

but he obviously read at least some of the thread
Maybe it means he does it by feel at times and by precise subdivision displacement at other times so he has no opinion one way or another?
 
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