How do you approach a drum solo?

Chill bro. I'm saying what haredrums is saying -- that he played mostly modal music. He wasn't a guy who played lots of arrangements. (As stated in my last post).


That isn't what Hare said and you know it. Here you go again making something up.
 
Hadn't been here in a while, nice to see Elvin's approach to soloing under discussion. Despite the one cat here bloviating to the contrary, yes, El-Ray was all about working within the form of the tune in his solos. For some great examples of Elvin soloing in a hard bop context, check out the Sonny Rollins recording, A Night at the Village Vanguard.
 
That's me. Then again, I can play. What's YOUR resume'?

My resume, I'd have to dig it up. I was never very good at keeping it up to date. Anyway, I haven't played my drums in about a year, which has nothing to do with knowing when someone is just flapping their gums.

Jolly good that you can play, old man!
 
My resume, I'd have to dig it up. I was never very good at keeping it up to date. Anyway, I haven't played my drums in about a year, which has nothing to do with knowing when someone is just flapping their gums.

Jolly good that you can play, old man!

Your replies are more pitiful and embarrassing with each post. Let it go.
 
Pitiful and embarrassing? Explain.

Really? You start crap. You get nasty. And you don't even know what you're talking about. You've done nothing. You admitted you don't even play anymore yet you hang around a drum forum breaking balls of people who actually are doing something. I've tried to quell the dissension and you keep stirring it right back up, looking lamer and lamer with each attempt.

How's that for starters?

Then you try to insult me by calling me an old man? Oooch, oh wow, that really hurts. You got me! LOL!!! You act like you're eleven years old. Get a life bro.
 
Hadn't been here in a while, nice to see Elvin's approach to soloing under discussion. Despite the one cat here bloviating to the contrary, yes, El-Ray was all about working within the form of the tune in his solos. For some great examples of Elvin soloing in a hard bop context, check out the Sonny Rollins recording, A Night at the Village Vanguard.

So true, what an amazing recording, thanks 8mile! Here is a solo from "A Night In Tunisia" (starts around 4:49): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1CQc2BZS1c

In this one he takes three choruses and then cues the band back in with the groove.

Plangentmusic, I don't think it was the fact that Elvin was playing with Wayne or because Wayne was/is a dogmatic band leader that led him to play over the form, I think it was because Wayne's music inspired Elvin to play this way. As I was saying earlier, we all agree that Elvin was a true master of the instrument and could play appropriately in different musical settings.

It is the same with this Sonny Rollins recording. I strongly suspect that the fact that Elvin plays over the form here has nothing to do with Sonny Rollins telling him how to play, it is just his natural response to the music. Elvin could and did solo over the form brilliantly whenever the music called for it.

Also just to be clear, I did not say that Elvin played "mostly" modal music. I don't think that that is really an accurate representation of his music. Elvin played everything from straight-ahead standards to super avant-garde, and he could solo spectacularly in any context. Elvin is certainly best known for his playing with Coltrane's group, which did feature lots of modal/open forms, but so much of Elvin's musical career was outside of the 4-5 years he spent with Coltrane!
 
Every thread I see which "plangentmusic" contributes to goes into a war sooner or later.[/QUOTE

I believe you're mistaken. I think this was the only one and I can't help if someone wants to start in with me. (for whatever their reason is) I never once insulted someone personally because of their opinion. Can't say the same for others. I'd like the discussion to stay civil.
 
So true, what an amazing recording, thanks 8mile! Here is a solo from "A Night In Tunisia" (starts around 4:49): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1CQc2BZS1c

In this one he takes three choruses and then cues the band back in with the groove.

Plangentmusic, I don't think it was the fact that Elvin was playing with Wayne or because Wayne was/is a dogmatic band leader that led him to play over the form, I think it was because Wayne's music inspired Elvin to play this way.

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I'm not sure the decision to play over a specific amount of measures or not is a matter of inspiration. My guess is that;s the way Wayne wanted it, but of course, it's all speculative on all out parts.



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As I was saying earlier, we all agree that Elvin was a true master of the instrument and could play appropriately in different musical settings.

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Yes and no. Elvin is a genius and an innovator. But I wouldn't hire him to play for ABBA. LOL


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It is the same with this Sonny Rollins recording. I strongly suspect that the fact that Elvin plays over the form here has nothing to do with Sonny Rollins telling him how to play, it is just his natural response to the music. Elvin could and did solo over the form brilliantly whenever the music called for it.

Also just to be clear, I did not say that Elvin played "mostly" modal music. I don't think that that is really an accurate representation of his music. Elvin played everything from straight-ahead standards to super avant-garde, and he could solo spectacularly in any context.


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Okay, but he is mostly associated with Trane who also wrote some beautiful compositions but is known for his explorations in modal music.


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Elvin is certainly best known for his playing with Coltrane's group, which did feature lots of modal/open forms, but so much of Elvin's musical career was outside of the 4-5 years he spent with Coltrane!

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And with his own group it was heavily modal. My FAVORITE Elvin group was the trio with Jimmy Garrison and Joe Farrell. Also mostly modal.


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Plangentmusic,

Do you think he played over the form in the recording with Sonny because Sonny asked him to as well? Don't you think at some point that it is more likely that Elvin played this way because he was inspired to do so by the music as opposed to being bossed around by a series of bandleaders? Especially considering how he said himself that he used the melody and structure of a song as inspiration for his solos in the two interviews that I have posted, I feel like it is pretty safe to assume that that is what he would do in this kind of music.
 
...ultimately Elvin is the expert on Elvin's playing.

That is a great place to leave this chapter of the thread I would think...

Here's another approach from a different genre. These videos are great, I just stumbled across them a couple days ago. I know that everyone has their opinions about gospel playing as well, but you can't deny the fact that there are some really amazing things being done on the drumset here. In this video we get to listen to how someof these ideas are developed around a solo concept. If you want to skip to the solo, go to 7:15...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvLv5Len0E

His use of words like "strokes" and "dynamics" is a little different than what we normally think of, but this guy really does a good job explaining how to put the techniques together into cohesive flowing phrases. It's basic, and not within the context of a song, but this is some great drumset playing.
 
Plangentmusic,

Do you think he played over the form in the recording with Sonny because Sonny asked him to as well? Don't you think at some point that it is more likely that Elvin played this way because he was inspired to do so by the music as opposed to being bossed around by a series of bandleaders?

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It has nothing to do with being bossed around. Either its a set amount of measures or it isn;t and that is usually decided up front. How are the other band members to know when to come in? it's either set, or it's cued. And also keep in mind, playing over an even amount of measures simply "feels" right. It isn't anything calculated or spiritual or even out of the ordinary.


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Especially considering how he said himself that he used the melody and structure of a song as inspiration for his solos in the two interviews that I have posted, I feel like it is pretty safe to assume that that is what he would do in this kind of music.

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I think we're splitting hairs now. I also don't think we ahve that different of an opinion - it's more a matter of the outlook.


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That is a great place to leave this chapter of the thread I would think...

Here's another approach from a different genre. These videos are great, I just stumbled across them a couple days ago. I know that everyone has their opinions about gospel playing as well, but you can't deny the fact that there are some really amazing things being done on the drumset here. In this video we get to listen to how someof these ideas are developed around a solo concept. If you want to skip to the solo, go to 7:15...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvLv5Len0E

His use of words like "strokes" and "dynamics" is a little different than what we normally think of, but this guy really does a good job explaining how to put the techniques together into cohesive flowing phrases. It's basic, and not within the context of a song, but this is some great drumset playing.

Great vid, thanks. Thanks for also steering the thread in a productive direction.
 
That is a great place to leave this chapter of the thread I would think...

Here's another approach from a different genre. These videos are great, I just stumbled across them a couple days ago. I know that everyone has their opinions about gospel playing as well, but you can't deny the fact that there are some really amazing things being done on the drumset here. In this video we get to listen to how someof these ideas are developed around a solo concept. If you want to skip to the solo, go to 7:15...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvLv5Len0E

His use of words like "strokes" and "dynamics" is a little different than what we normally think of, but this guy really does a good job explaining how to put the techniques together into cohesive flowing phrases. It's basic, and not within the context of a song, but this is some great drumset playing.

Yeah,

Great video Greg, thanks for sharing. This guy has beautiful control and phrasing, a pleasure to watch.
 
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