Hit like a girl

T

The SunDog

Guest
I keep typing and deleting, for fear of spontaneous combustion.

Honestly, I don't know whether to laff or cry. Lovely, where HAVE you been in the last 50-odd years?

Mods, is there any way we can tax the word "girl" and send the proceeds to UNICEF?
Not sure exactly what to take from this. Except that you don't like the term girl? Women might have been a better choice. For the last 43 years I've been in the US, mostly New York. I apologize if you didn't get my point. Pehaps you should go to the "hot girl drummer" thread and vent there. Lots of videos of mediocre drummers that would'nt get any attention if they featured "boys" playing. Hey, new thread idea.....hit like a boy.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
why do we let these women folk vote and wear bathing suits above the knee ??
Methinks there's just a touch of sarcasm in your post Tony ;)

I guess I'll say what nobody else here wants to. Girls do not hit like guys! I'm not saying better or worse, but I am saying different.
Actually, taken literally, you have a point. In my experience of working with pro female players, they typically play with far less emphasis on displays of technique, & more emphasis on using that technique to benefit the music. Better grasp of dynamics, & overall, more musical. In fact, I'd go as far as to say "better musicians". As for power, they can deliver that too, but by using strong technique, not how high they can raise their arms ;)

Of course, I'm generalising, but aren't we all?
 

coolhand1969

Senior Member
When Tommy Lee left Motley Crue they went out and found another guy to take his place. Something happened, the replacement broke his arm or something. They had tour dates booked and responsibilities. Nikki Sixx went out and got Samantha Maloney (formerly of Hole). It took her a day and 1/2 to learn Tommy's parts. I have the video from Salt Lake and she played with the same power as Tommy or maybe even more. They sort of made fun of her, but she stayed pro and laid it down. Oh, she did not have her kit turn sideways or fly up in the air and play upside down (Buddy Rich did this decades before Tommy), but she was as powerful as him, easily.
 

Magenta

Platinum Member
Not sure exactly what to take from this. Except that you don't like the term girl? Women might have been a better choice. For the last 43 years I've been in the US, mostly New York. I apologize if you didn't get my point. Pehaps you should go to the "hot girl drummer" thread and vent there. Lots of videos of mediocre drummers that would'nt get any attention if they featured "boys" playing. Hey, new thread idea.....hit like a boy.
I apologise for snapping at you. "Girl" causes the red mist to descend: it's patronising and belittling, but you probably didn't mean it like that. I hope you didn't, anyway!

They can test as high or higher, play as good or better, but power will always be a separate category.
Is power the same as strength? I don't think it is. Most women aren't as strong as men, but I don't accept that they can't play as powerfully: after all, it isn't about how hard you can hit.

No one ever mentions an awesome girl drummer without making a special emphasis on the fact that IT'S A GIRL drummer.
Some people don't mention it at all, and neither should they - it's as relevant as a drummer's ethnic origin, which I think most people would either not notice or, if they did, wouldn't remark on it. We all have the choice as to whether or not to notice it, either to others or just in our own heads.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
"Girl" causes the red mist to descend: it's patronising and belittling,
Depends on who choses to take offense though. My wife is forever "catching up with the girls" or going for a "girls night out" or "having the girls round for drinks". Given none of them have worn pigtails or played hopscotch in years, I can only take it they embrace the word.

Until there's a consensus, what hope have any of us got?
 

mikel

Platinum Member
Depends on who choses to take offense though. My wife is forever "catching up with the girls" or going for a "girls night out" or "having the girls round for drinks". Given none of them have worn pigtails or played hopscotch in years, I can only take it they embrace the word.

Until there's a consensus, what hope have any of us got?
With you all the way Pocket. My wife often asks me "Are you going out with the boys tonight" etc. Do I take offence because I am, probably, a man? Of course not, Its a generic throw away term.

As most of us have stated on this thread already, the only problem we have with the Hit Like a Girl comp is because we believe it's un necessary. A drummer is a drummer, end of.
 

Magenta

Platinum Member
Depends on who choses to take offense though. My wife is forever "catching up with the girls" or going for a "girls night out" or "having the girls round for drinks". Given none of them have worn pigtails or played hopscotch in years, I can only take it they embrace the word.

Until there's a consensus, what hope have any of us got?
Context is everything. When the word "girl" is used in opposition to "man", whether the latter is stated or implied, it's just plain wrong.

However, I don't use the word "girl" unless that's what I mean. I go out with my women friends. I talk about the women I work with. I refer to "our daughters". Yes, I'm PC and proud of it, because attitudes don't change unless decisions are taken to make them change.

There, I'll get off me soapbox now!
 

Caz

Senior Member
I admittedly don't know anything about the competition, but I don't mind the idea of a competition for females if it encourages more females to play and publicises that there are already a lot of good female drummers out there. I'd personally probably rather put my time into musical projects, but it's good that competitions exist for people who want that - and within that world categorising 'candidates' seems pretty standard, maybe it's a bit more like sports than music.. but that's cool, freedom and equality is having the choice between these things and I'm glad that's there.

I watched Terri-Lynne Carrington sit in on a big band rehearsal this week, I've seen her a couple of times now in an informal context. I'm so glad that she's out there, she's a cool person, no vibe or anything, she just got up and played through a chart (a pretty tricky latin chart too, I'd have been really struggling) and laid it down straight away - time, feel and dynamics were perfect and the next time they ran it she nailed all the hits too. I've been getting to meet a lot of my heroes recently, the biggest 'name' probably being Herbie Hancock, and a number of my favourite drummers. The one consistent thing is that they're all really generous with their time and encouragement - being female is irrelevant, they treat me as a musician with a passion. They're my role models - I guess we all need them. Maybe some female (or male..) drummers out there will see some of these competition videos and will find a role model to be inspired by.
 
T

The SunDog

Guest
When Tommy Lee You left Motley Crue they went out and found another guy to take his place. Something happened, the replacement broke his arm or something. They had tour dates booked and respo
nsibilities. Nikki Sixx went out and got Samantha Maloney (formerly of Hole). It took her a day and 1/2 to learn Tommy's parts. I have the video from Salt Lake and she played with the same power as Tommy or maybe even more. They sort of made fun of her, but she stayed pro and laid it down. Oh, she did not have her kit turn sideways or fly up in the air and play upside down (Buddy Rich did this decades before Tommy), but she was as powerful as him, easily.
You are higher than a biscuit on a hot kite.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Is power the same as strength? I don't think it is. Most women aren't as strong as men, but I don't accept that they can't play as powerfully: after all, it isn't about how hard you can hit.
This right here. Playing like a gorilla doesn't mean anything. There is a limit on how loud a drum can get without help. You can hit it with a baseball bat and it wont make a difference. Strength matters not.
 

dazzlez

Senior Member
I hate any kind of discrimination and I can't see how this doesn't encourage the picture the myth that men and women are more different than we really are.

Even if the thought is good, it will just backfire..

If you wanna encourage more women to play drums you put great female players in commercials(for music schools etc) organize competitions for all genders with a female drummer in the trailer, give female babies baby drums, write children stories with a drummers that's a girl etc etc.

They need role-models, not a stupid competition where they compete against themselves that only strengthens the myth that it would be any different between themselves and men. Instead of even trying to be the best drummer in the world, they could get the idea that they only have the chance to be the best female drummer.

Thankfully drums is not a sport so it doesn't matter as much. Drums is mainly about expressing yourself and the music and not about being the greatest. Therefore this competition hardly means anything but it happens in sports where the gender doesn't matter and it's just disgusting and bad for women.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
I admittedly don't know anything about the competition, but I don't mind the idea of a competition for females if it encourages more females to play and publicises that there are already a lot of good female drummers out there. I'd personally probably rather put my time into musical projects, but it's good that competitions exist for people who want that - and within that world categorising 'candidates' seems pretty standard, maybe it's a bit more like sports than music.. but that's cool, freedom and equality is having the choice between these things and I'm glad that's there.

I watched Terri-Lynne Carrington sit in on a big band rehearsal this week, I've seen her a couple of times now in an informal context. I'm so glad that she's out there, she's a cool person, no vibe or anything, she just got up and played through a chart (a pretty tricky latin chart too, I'd have been really struggling) and laid it down straight away - time, feel and dynamics were perfect and the next time they ran it she nailed all the hits too. I've been getting to meet a lot of my heroes recently, the biggest 'name' probably being Herbie Hancock, and a number of my favourite drummers. The one consistent thing is that they're all really generous with their time and encouragement - being female is irrelevant, they treat me as a musician with a passion. They're my role models - I guess we all need them. Maybe some female (or male..) drummers out there will see some of these competition videos and will find a role model to be inspired by.
Yes but will it. Surely it just means that female drummers, who are already playing, enter it.
Surely it's all about personal choice and aspiration. I had the desire to play drums from a very young age because I was always tapping on things, I didn't know why, It was simply a compulsion, and my choice.
You cant force females to want to play the drums, its about aspiration. Just because half the population are female does not therefore mean there will by default be a 50 50 split in people wanting to play the drums.
 
T

The SunDog

Guest
I apologise for snapping at you. "Girl" causes the red mist to descend: it's patronising and belittling, but you probably didn't mean it like that. I hope you didn't, anyway!



Is power the same as strength? I don't think it is. Most women aren't as strong as men, but I don't accept that they can't play as powerfully: after all, it isn't about how hard you can hit.



Some people don't mention it at all, and neither should they - it's as relevant as a drummer's ethnic origin, which I think most people would either not notice or, if they did, wouldn't remark on it. We all have the choice as to
whether or not to notice it, either to others or just in our own heads.
First, thank you, I hate being snapped at. Second strenght lifting is not a sport. Power lifting is, and the record is held by a man. I noticed that it was a man, does that make me politically incorrect? Differences should not be ignored, they should be embraced. It's what makes us "unique". For example you and I are very different, and I like that very much. I will not pretend it's not so. Pretending that differences between people do not exist does not mean you are politically correct. Pretending means that you did notice and then made a conscious effort not to mention it. In that sense you should never have pointed out that my off color statements were politically incorrect, but instead chosen not to mention them.
 

Magenta

Platinum Member
Differences should not be ignored, they should be embraced. It's what makes us "unique". For example you and I are very different, and I like that very much.
I had a feeling that there would be more that united us than divided us :)
 

Otto

Platinum Member
I've been considering this thread a bit over the last week...

I think we should consider eliminating gender qualifications in any area of endeavor...including gender specific drumming competitions.

Yes...there will be some competitions where the majority of the high achievers will be one gender or another...for whatever reason...oh well...but there will be NO participation discrimination related to gender.



...my 2 cents...

I do think that greater muscle stamina makes a person find drumming easier...and a positive feedback loop is more likely to develop. If you decide to stick a gender bias in here based on muscle stamina...thats your thing...not mine....and be sure you understand what discrimination is...as it is NOT observing functional differences based on genetic traits....its interpreting value based on, often, poorly defined markers.
 
Top