Hi-hats for recording?

NeelModi

NeelModi

Junior Member
I'm new to recording drums. I have a 1969 Yamaha kit with newer Sabian XSR cymbals, which are better and more $$ than the B8 stuff, and a heck of lot cheaper than the AA series stuff.

I've always preferred brighter sounding cymbals for live playing. I'm in a indie folk-rock band, but we're getting more electric and harder lately.

We recently recorded with these XSR cymbals (multi-mic setup with 2 OHs and Room mic) and the hi-hat sounds especially bright. I'm now noticing that most rock records have much darker sounding hi-hats, and even other cymbals.

Thinking to get some darker hats just for recording, but don't want to break the bank either. Is this a thing, do you folks use different cymbals for live vs. recording?

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Neel
 
lower weights regardless of series will give lower sounds
then there are higher weights that still are low but that's a higher dollar proposition these days
so If you're talking 14's anything below 900g top 1000g bottom will start taking the pitch down in a standard Avedis A machine hammered B20 setting. There's other factors, profiles, cup size, affect.
 
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NeelModi said:
Is this a thing, do you folks use different cymbals for live vs. recording?
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😳

You’re asking this on a forum where the members practically ask, “Which ride cymbal do you use while brushing your teeth?”

Yes, have different sonic options is a good idea, if you have the desire and means to do so.

Also, don’t discount those bright hats as not suitable for recording—they might be just the thing for a different recording project.

Also, have you tried using different mic placements and EQing? While you can’t magically make a pair of hats sound exactly like another pair of hats without a sound replacement program, you CAN steer the EQing of the hats noticeably in a different direction, especially if they have a designated mic/track of their own.
 
caddywumpus said:
Also, don’t discount those bright hats as not suitable for recording—they might be just the thing for a different recording project.

Also, have you tried using different mic placements and EQing? While you can’t magically make a pair of hats sound exactly like another pair of hats without a sound replacement program, you CAN steer the EQing of the hats noticeably in a different direction, especially if they have a designated mic/track of their own.
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I agree. XSR Hats are bright, but I don't think they're overly bright. Mic placement and especially EQ should be able to tame the high end they put out. :)
 
Thanks guys. Yes, I got somewhere with some EQ, but since everything is on the overheads, I had to automate the EQ to bring back the presence of the tom fills.

I think I also have to learn to play the hats quieter while recording, which is harder when they're open, but that's something I've been working on.
 
Hi hat bleed into other mics is a thing. Maybe try taking that track out? I know in live situations, there’s so much bleed I don’t end up using the hi hat mic (and in a live situation sometimes the overheads don’t get used since the cymbals are bleeding into all the other mics too).

But if you really want to get blended hi hats in your tracks, get two 17” thin crashes and use those for hats. That’s all I use these days and they blend wonderfully with a nice slosh when needed.
 
NeelModi said:
I think I also have to learn to play the hats quieter while recording
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The same thing happened to me when I began recording myself (along with several other revelations of poor playing). Balanced/controlled playing all over the kit is supremely important.
 
I'd look into getting something thin, Turkish, and nothing smaller than a 15".
 
You could try getting a thin (even paper-thin) crash the same size as your primary hats and mix and match with the other two hats as the bottom hat and see what you like. Much more affordable than a new pair of hats and you could do the same thing again later and have a new custom pair!
 
I've used the same pair of hats for both live and recording. Then again, my live playing has always been fairly low volume. I do concur that a lot of the sound comes from the drummer's touch and overall kit balance, but mic selection and positioning (and the room itself) has a big effect as well. Ribbon mics are an excellent choice for overheads if the cymbals need a bit of taming.
 
I wouldn't buy a different set of hats for occasional recordings if you like the pair you have for all other purposes. A simple piece of a tape can darken the brightest of cymbals and is easily removable.
 
Neel, what your not telling us is whether you are using nylon or wood tipped sticks, the former brightens the sound almost as much as switching out cymbal brands/types. Another idea for recording is to use maple as compared to hickory sticks. in this case maple yields a slightly darker cymbal tones (maple is less durable than hickory though). I’ve always found that its more important to have a balanced sounding hats ride and main crash and then you can EQ the overheads to suit. For what it’s worth I occasionally play indie rock and for that I use Bosphorus Groove (formerly Stanton Moore) series which aren’t overly bright nor too dry nor particularly loud.
 
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I agree that there's probably a lot you can do with the hi-hats you have if you try tape, mic placement, EQ, technique, etc. If you do decide to go with something else, may I suggest borrowing or obtaining just one cymbal (top or bottom) to try to get a darker sound without going all in on a new set of hats (because $$$)?

I swapped out the top on a set of A Custom Mastersounds and use a Bosphorus Traditionals top (hand-hammered, 850g) over the very heavy Mastersound bottom. I get cutting chicks and a warmer, less clangy stick sound. Kind of the best of both worlds.
 
Paiste 602ME hats are an option as well. Not too overpowering live or studio. I have a set of 14''s that sound great without sticking out too much.

If I needed to go lower pitched, I have a pair of 16" Big Beat hats that sound amazing. Even if I do weirdly pair them with a 20" ride sometimes, my overall volume is more blending than cutting, which I prefer.
 
NeelModi said:
Thanks guys. Yes, I got somewhere with some EQ, but since everything is on the overheads, I had to automate the EQ to bring back the presence of the tom fills.

I think I also have to learn to play the hats quieter while recording, which is harder when they're open, but that's something I've been working on.
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Playing quieter has been an ongoing thing for me, too and it helps a lot. If you start reading about the legends you will run into stories of them doing retakes in the studio with doing nothing but playing a drum or the cymbals with a different dynamic.
A set of used A's in the range that @jda mentioned are what I end up using most of the time. Used sets come up pretty often and can be very reasonably priced. Hipsters don't tend to like the boring old A's. I think they sound like the classic tunes I grew up on. The Toyota Camry of cymbals.
Extreme EQ causes its own problems... fix one thing cause another.
 
Paiste 602's could make amazing recording hi-hats, too. The normal set is a bit thinner than New Beats so it's got amazing sensitivity.
Speaking of that, I'm thinking of Nick Mason. He uses different hi-hats for recording: 15" 602 Sound Edges in the studio, and 15" 602 Heavies onstage. I wonder if he really needs that much volume boost onstage? The large Sound Edges are already not quiet, as evidenced by early Bonzo.
 
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