Hey Joe: Great drumming or overplaying?

DaleClark

Senior Member
I think the track is fine as is. IMO, it would be the Producer's job (Chris Chandler in this case) to point out any overplaying, etc.
 

opentune

Platinum Member
When I think of Mitch Mitchell I think of his playing on this (as well as Manic Depression). This song is totally who Mitch Mitchell is. In this regard I bet nobody else can play it this way.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Noel Redding did not write Hey Joe ... nor did anyone in that band
................................................
^ This.

It was done by many before Hendrix. There is a debate just over who wrote it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hey_Joe

As for the drumming on the Hendrix, version, well, at the risk of creating sacrilege and getting kicked off this forum, I never dug Mitchell. It's a lot of notes, and his playing with Hendrix always struck me as just trying too hard to insert a lot of notes.

But then again, it was the syle at the time, with Cream and The Who also playing a lot of notes, (and I love The Who, which I realize makes me a hypocrite).

It is a fun song to jam on with other players.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
A few more of those immature examples..:

* Jim Morrison was only 24 on The Doors debut album, i guess thats why those lyrics and performance sound that immature..

* Angus Young was only 20-24 on everything from T.N.T till Highway To Hell, i guess thats why those songs and guitar parts sound that immature..

* Amy Winehouse was only 20-23 from Frank till Back to Black, i guess thats why she always sounded that immature..

* Keith Moon..............................................

* etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc..


All of them, only children, just trying something new and with a little more musical training they would have made some better choices and they would have sounded much more mature..

Same for Mitch Mitchell..

Edit.

I mean, we all realize that this thread is about Mitch Mitchell..?
Since you brought them up...

Amy Winehouse sounds mature because she emulated renowned, accomplished jazz singers and improvisers from an early age. Her grandmother was a respected singer. Her parents and uncles sang jazz to her throughout her childhood. Her early life was comparable to a vocal Conservatory. She had two lifetimes of training before she was old enough to drive.

Angus sounds mature to me, too. He had plenty of records and guitar-player examples to show him the way, during the 70s. The path had been paved. AC/DC also had Mutt Lange helping out.

Morrison and Moon? Great rockstars, absolutely, and they have their merits, but their works also display some immaturity, musically or lyrically, to some extent. They don’t have to be praised as infallible geniuses just because they’re famous.
 

williamsbclontz

Silver Member
You know the saying "you're either a Elvis guy or a Beatles guy"?

Well in the drumming world, you're either a Mitch Mitchell/ Experience guy or a Buddy Miles/ Gypsys guy. You can love both of them, but you'll always like one way better
 

Otto

Platinum Member
subjectivity is subjective...and my opinion is relevant to myself and marketers and of dubious use to others.
 

Tamaefx

Silver Member
Simply put...

Mitch Mitchell's drumming makes that tune the emotional powerhouse it is....

In my opinion of course....lol.
Exactly:
On the contrary each time I hear this song played by - what I call - a lazy drummer (doing the basic) I feel the song is flat and lacks of life and power.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
A few more of those immature examples..:

* Jim Morrison was only 24 on The Doors debut album, i guess thats why those lyrics and performance sound that immature..

* Angus Young was only 20-24 on everything from T.N.T. till Highway To Hell, i guess thats why those songs and guitar parts sound that immature..

* Amy Winehouse was only 20-23 from Frank till Back to Black, i guess thats why she always sounded that immature..

* Keith Moon..............................................

* etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc..


All of them, only children, just trying something new and with a little more musical training they would have made some better choices and they would have sounded much more mature..

Same for Mitch Mitchell..

Edit.

I mean, we all realize that this thread is about Mitch Mitchell..?
NO NO NO NO NO.

Most of the greats in any field made their first great work at a young age. From Einstein to Tony Williams.

Old rock stars suck, their best work is always the earlier stuff. It's passionate and free.

Who want to sound "mature? Ugh. Sounds like something a middle school band teacher would say. I want the music to soar and make the audience feel intensely, not impress them with my mature (safe) musical choices.

I'll take the passion of youth with all of its flaws any day over "maturity" when it comes to any art form.

Mitch's playing on Hey Joe is epic and totally fit the style at the time.
 

rebonn

Senior Member
I think Fire was one of his greatest grooves. But then there's a live version that to me is totally overplayed and "off kilter". I guess the intention was to completely change the drum part trying his best to syncopate some sort of off beat thing and a perfect example of the OPs reference.
 

oldskoolsoul

Silver Member
..NO NO NO NO NO..

I think you have not catched the sarcasm in my previous reply, because i agree with everything you wrote..

People who say that Mitch Mitchell is 'overplaying' songs, in my opinion seriously have not understood a few things about drumming, about freedom, about expression, about creativity, about power and about musicality in general..

I mean, whats next, that we all decide that Strawberry Fields Forever also has too many fills..?
 

Lennytoons

Senior Member
NO NO NO NO NO.

Most of the greats in any field made their first great work at a young age. From Einstein to Tony Williams.

Old rock stars suck, their best work is always the earlier stuff. It's passionate and free.

Who want to sound "mature? Ugh. Sounds like something a middle school band teacher would say. I want the music to soar and make the audience feel intensely, not impress them with my mature (safe) musical choices.

I'll take the passion of youth with all of its flaws any day over "maturity" when it comes to any art form.

Mitch's playing on Hey Joe is epic and totally fit the style at the time.
Uh.. Rod Stewart with Faces vs. "mature" Rod Stewart. Case closed.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
Man,, I don't even know how that song would sound with just straight time. Boring, lifeless, even the speed ups and slow downs make that song what it is. Now a days they would quantize/grid it and suck the life right out of it.

That's a snapshot in time. I love the drumming in that song and wish we could go back to that. I personally enjoy some exciting drums in my music. The only reason it feels like overplaying is what is being produced in the last 20 years doesn't allow the drummers to shine.

Lots of music from the 60's and 70's had great drumming.. Also it's a reason why I stick in the metal genre these days because I can go off on the kit and no one even thinks twice about it.
 

Erberderber

Senior Member
Well, I think my question has been answered, resulting heavily in favour of the drumming being suitable for the song. I really enjoyed reading all of the replies, which were both insightful and informative, so thank you.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
I think you have not catched the sarcasm in my previous reply, because i agree with everything you wrote..

People who say that Mitch Mitchell is 'overplaying' songs, in my opinion seriously have not understood a few things about drumming, about freedom, about expression, about creativity, about power and about musicality in general..

I mean, whats next, that we all decide that Strawberry Fields Forever also has too many fills..?
You’re rcoreect, I missed the sarcasm. In that case, right on!
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
Uh.. Rod Stewart with Faces vs. "mature" Rod Stewart. Case closed.[/QUOTE

No. The case is not closed because you say so. Most artists and scientists produce their best work before age 30. They then usually spend the rest of their lives trying to live up to their prior glory.
 

Juniper

Gold Member
I wonder if guitarists have the same Debate about Hendrix over on Guitaristsworld.com?

Hendrix once said that he liked the dynamic Mitchell/The Experience gave the their music, yes at times it’s all over the place and things are overplayed but that’s what made it work also and made it exciting. That freedom is what the band was about.

Which is probably why the core rhythm setup of ‘Band of Gypsys’ was very dissimilar when Hendrix briefly tried something new.

Mitch Mitchell was a great drummer at such a young age, some of the live recordings are disappointing from a performance perspective but you have to remember they admitted that often they were on drugs/Acid when they took to the stage.

Sure that comes into it quite a bit!! Ha!!

There’s a funny story in the book Mitchell did on the Experience where he talks about suddenly finding himself 50foot in the sky, looking down on the rest of the band as they played and freaked out. Obviously under the influence of something.....
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
That's a snapshot in time. I love the drumming in that song and wish we could go back to that. I personally enjoy some exciting drums in my music. The only reason it feels like overplaying is what is being produced in the last 20 years doesn't allow the drummers to shine.
We actually tried to go back to stuff like this in the early 2000s, and got some good music out of it, too. But the drumming was WAY simpler, and often, though not always, played with precision.

I mean, whats next, that we all decide that Strawberry Fields Forever also has too many fills..?
I prefer to think of it like fashion -- it always seems weird, after enough time has passed.

Love you guys, but many of you of seem VERY certain that Mitchell is nailing the perfect drum part in this tune. But ask yourselves: if that drum performance is the perfect thing for that song, then what prompted the OP ask the question and create the post in the first place?

It's okay to find faults in famous performances. It's just critical listening, and we do it all the time. I think it's dangerous to just wave away the details, because of "the times" or "freedom" or "art". If we can't find mistakes, in ourselves and others, then we can't learn.

Peace and goodwill.
 

CommanderRoss

Silver Member
It fits because that's the only way most of us have ever heard it. Mitch took his jazz background and made it fit the rock scene.
That's brilliant in its own right.

Great tune for sure.
 
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