Hemiola vs. Polyrhythm

Philaiy9

Junior Member
Hi all,

Years ago my bass teacher used the example of led Zeppelin's "rock and roll" to explain polyrhythms to me (the part "let me get back, let me get back, let me get back"). But I've also encountered the term hemiola and it seems that could also be used to describe that phrase. How do you all differentiate the terms?
 
I for one don't differentiate terms to accomplish my skills. It's not a matter of name. It's drumming. Don't get so wound up on what things are called. Concentrate instead on developing an ear, then practice replicating the sound you're hearing, If you have a drum teacher, ask him to listen to what you want to play and have him show you. DON'T ask him to show you how to play a polyrhythmic hemiola in 7/8 time signature as an adagio appendage to a previous ostinato sequence involving 4 measures in 4/4 time. Better yet, just ask him to show you some Bonham licks if that's what you're in to.
 
I was taught, and currently use, these definitions:

a poly rhythm is the feel of 2 rhythms over top of each other, like 3 over 2, or 3 over 4, or 5 over 7

a hemiola is when you alter the rhythmic space to make a song feel like it is slowing down or speeding up, when the tempo actually is not changing. This is done by stringing sequentially smaller or larger rhythmic events together. Example below:

tempo at 90: do 2 measures of half notes, into 2 measures of quarter note triplets, into 2 measures of quarter notes into 2 measures of 8th note triplets into 2 measures of 8th notes into 2 measures of 16th notes etc etc...the illusion is that you are speeding up, when the pulse is actually not

this is what I teach and write with, so this is what my students use
 
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Polyrhythm is a blanket term for any two or more pulses at different rates played together, hemiola specifically refers to a 3:2 polyrhythm. Here's a page that breaks down a couple of common forms of it.

That vocal line in R&R is more polymetric-- the line is in 3/4 (momentarily) while the tune is in 4/4. The rhythm guitar part on the chorus of Back In Black is a better example of a polyrhythm-- there's a dotted 8th note rhythm in the guitar played over the strong quarter note pulse of the drum beat.

There's some overlap between polyrhythm and polymeter, and syncopation-- which refers to rhythms that tend to disguise the meter of the piece. I don't worry about it. Just listen for instances of running dotted rhythms, or rhythms phrased in three notes or beats-- assuming the setting is 4/4. They're extremely common.
 
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I was taught, and currently use, these definitions:

a poly rhythm is the feel of 2 rhythms over top of each other, like 3 over 2, or 3 over 4, or 5 over 7

a hemiola is when you alter the rhythmic space to make a song feel like it is slowing down or speeding up, when the tempo actually is not changing. This is done by stringing sequentially smaller or larger rhythmic events together. Example below:

tempo at 90: do 2 measures of half notes, into 2 measures of quarter note triplets, into 2 measures of quarter notes into 2 measures of 8th note triplets into 2 measures of 8th notes into 2 measures of 16th notes etc etc...the illusion is that you are speeding up, when the pulse is actually not

this is what I teach and write with, so this is what my students use

I've never heard of that definition of hemiola. I've always understood it to be essentially a 3:2 polyrhythm. The following definition is what comes up on google:


hem·i·o·la
/ˌhemēˈōlə/
noun
MUSIC
a musical figure in which, typically, two groups of three beats are replaced by three groups of two beats, giving the effect of a shift between triple and duple meter.
 
It always baffles me when someone is posting text on a discussion board and saying we shouldn't use words. :unsure:
 
It always baffles me when someone is posting text on a discussion board and saying we shouldn't use words. :unsure:

And I have a little extra disappointment when someone tells someone "your questions aren't valid" and implies that this type of question would hold somebody back from growing musically.
 
I also was taught that a hemiola is a specific 2/3 crossrhythm. Usually a 2 beat pattern played across a three beat pulse.
The examples we studied came from Renaissance Motets. There’s one at the end of God Save the Queen/My Country ‘tis of Thee.
Afro-Cuban beats that mix 6/8 and 3/4 can also be considered hemiolas, as can the song ‘America’ from West Side Story.
 
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And I have a little extra disappointment when someone tells someone "your questions aren't valid" and implies that this type of question would hold somebody back from growing musically.
Who knows? Maybe he's right.
Johnny Rotten sang "The written word, is a lie!" I can appreciate that sentiment. What I find baffling is that he wrote it down.
 
..Just encouraging my friends to stop intellectualizing something as simple as playing drums..


Thats just the difference between someone who only cares about a certain 'feel' or 'freedom' or 'expression' with playing/hitting drums like yourself or someone who really studied the instrument like for example toddbishop..

Playing drums is a serious study..

People at conservatory, Drummers Collective, Berklee and all other music universities/teachers/private schools/etc worldwide are not crazy because they treat the instrument like that..
 
No hate involved. Just encouraging my friends to stop intellectualizing something as simple as playing drums.

You like your drums simple and that's cool, but try to play like Vinnie or Elvin and you'll quickly find out that your view is inadequate to understand what they're doing.
 
People at conservatory, Drummers Collective, Berklee and all other music universities/teachers/private schools/etc worldwide are not crazy because they treat the instrument like that..

I see it as a left-brain/right-brain thing. There are strong arguments to be made for both approaches. It's counter productive to dismiss one as being incorrect.
 
You like your drums simple and that's cool, but try to play like Vinnie or Elvin and you'll quickly find out that your view is inadequate to understand what they're doing.
Really? I guess you need to know the name of colors in order to paint adequately. I did not know that either. BTW, you misinterpreted what I said about simplicity. I did not say "I like my drums simple." I said there's no need in intellectualizing something as simple as playing drums. It ain't rocket science, it's feeling, emotion, expression, etc. I am by no means a simple drummer who plays backbeats so the other musicians know how to stay on time. As I've said many times. "You're either a musician or you're not." NO amount of book learning, amount of musical terms you know, OR what brand drums you play will make you a great or even good drummer. Same holds true for guitarists, saxophonists, Souzaphonists, or that no teeth guy in the front porch rocking chair in the foothills of the Ozarks playing a homemade jews harp. Personally I'd rather hear someone playing their heart out than someone pontificating and differentiating through terminology found in dusty old books in the backroom music library.
 
Personally I'd rather hear someone playing their heart out than someone pontificating and differentiating through terminology found in dusty old books in the backroom music library.

That's a bit like arguing that folk art is better than fine art. It's largely a matter of taste and personal values.

It's important to remember that different people learn in different ways. Some are more intuitive, and some are more analytical. There's an unfortunate tendency for both camps to be dismissive of the other's approach.
 
It's important to remember that different people learn in different ways. Some are more intuitive, and some are more analytical. There's an unfortunate tendency for both camps to be dismissive of the other's approach.
Learn how you will. I just want to hear you play, not analyze. Nor will I dismiss your educational process. Learn as much as you can, by any means you deem essential, then impress me with your sticks not your tongue. As for folk art versus fine art, I agree with your assessment. Ditto when comparing Ragtime and Death Metal. Matter of taste.
 
I've never heard of that definition of hemiola. I've always understood it to be essentially a 3:2 polyrhythm. The following definition is what comes up on google:


hem·i·o·la
/ˌhemēˈōlə/
noun
MUSIC
a musical figure in which, typically, two groups of three beats are replaced by three groups of two beats, giving the effect of a shift between triple and duple meter.
Same here. A series of subdivisions is not hemiola. A hemiola, at least in classical terms, has the effect of a temporary time signature change, in order to momentarily create rhythmic tension.

A hemiola occurs when we group notes in a way that is not evenly divisible among a measure. So, the grouping, if continued, will traverse the bar line. Some definitions of hemiola insist that the bar line is crossed by the grouping, at least according to the faculty at Wayne State University.
 
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