Help With old Zildjian (expertise needed)

HOUSTON 94

Senior Member
So, I got this old ride with my kit. Its 20" and I think is B8; it's really orange and matches my B8 hats and small crash. (compared to my B20 crash and china) The craigslist ad said Zildjian but I disagreed because it had no (visible) markings. I then saw it said Avedis on it and I was like ok cool. Now, I found out it is from probably the 60s or 70s. I need some help dating it.

The stamp starts about 1/2" away from the edge of the cymbal and hypothetically ends about 2" - 2 1/2" away. I say hypothetically because the pictures I've seen of 50s-70s stamps show them with different artwork. I can clearly see about 3/4" of Turkish writing and about maybe a pencils eraser length below it is AVEDIS. Another eraser below is CENUI which I assume means genuine. It looks like maybe another phrase (MADE IN USA) starts below genuine but it is way too faded to make out.

If you have the stamp at the 12 oclock position, the back of the cymbal has ZILDJIAN in bold letters (about 2 inches wide) at the 6oclock.
EDIT: I now see that ZILDJIAN is imprinted above genuine and Turkish Cymbal below that. Looks exactally like this ebay from the past. You can also see vertical lines (perpendicular to the lathe lines) in my pic and it doesn't seem to be in any other pics I've seen.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/96/l_7a03fbfc762a45a992a5dbb57f2eb4d2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zildjian-1960's-A-Avedis-Ride-Cymbal_W0QQitemZ160391451069QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxq20100103?IMSfp=TL100103002002r1214&usg=__lMrX0Y803h0YGEJc3Qd472d3YfQ=&h=804&w=600&sz=63&hl=en&start=11&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=U2SIV09okXcELM:&tbnh=143&tbnw=107&prev=/images?q=zildjian+1960s+stamp&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&rlz=1T4GGLJ_enUS315US315&tbs=isch:1
 

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wolfgang

Senior Member
Wasn't aware Zildjian made B8 cymbals then. Interesting. That's some pretty intense lathing as well, with the vertical lines and such. Never seen that before.
 
T

thatguykalem

Guest
That doesn't look like any cymbal I've seen before.

If that's truly a 50+ year old rare Zildjian cymbal, you've got yourself a money-maker. If you really want to make it into a long-term investment, wait another 30 years =D
 

Adam8

Senior Member
Thats the exact same hammering that was used on Zildjian Schimitar cymbals and maybe Edge cymbals also. The ones I had were in the 90's though. Maybe it's a Amir, although I'm not sure how far those go back.
 

Strangelove

Gold Member
That hammering looks like it was stamped into the cymbal rather than hammered by either a human or a machine. Also, I am pretty certain Zildjian never varied from their time proven alloy mix of 80% copper and 20% tin. I really don't think this cymbal is from the 1950s or 1960s, and am skeptical that it is even from the 1970s, although there was a move to the Canadian plant in the 1970s, where automated production took over for much of the manual labor that was eating Armand's costs up back in Quincy.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I doubt that it is of B8 alloy. No Zildjian that I have ever seen with a stamp like that was of B8 alloy.
The fact that it is bright orange, and it matches B8's in your collection is puzzling.
My best guess would be 70's
 

HOUSTON 94

Senior Member
Well, my b20 cymbals are sabian. That could be why they dont match. My b8s are paiste and sabian so the ride is my only Zildjian so I cant compare it with anything. I would think that b20 is b20, you know
 

jer

Silver Member
Thats the exact same hammering that was used on Zildjian Schimitar cymbals and maybe Edge cymbals also. The ones I had were in the 90's though. Maybe it's a Amir, although I'm not sure how far those go back.
Seconding the Scimitar hammering, pretty sure they were made with the B8 alloy.

Does it feel as though it's got a protective film on it?
 

HOUSTON 94

Senior Member
Ehhh not really. The underside does kinda have some weird discoloration that looks like it has some film on it that has slowly peeled off.
 

Skitch

Pioneer Member
I don't think this is a vintage Zildjian. The tradestamp looks like it is "on top of" the surface rather than actually in the cymbal itself and it is much too clean. Also, Zildjian never had the hammering pattern shown until late 1980s or early 1990s. I'm not claiming to know it all, but my bet is that it isn't a vintage Zildjian and is more likely a Scimitar.

How did you go about finding "out that it was 1960s or 1970s"; and I mean where or from whom did you learn this?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
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http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemccraw
http://twitter.com/mikemccraw
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I don't think this is a vintage Zildjian. The tradestamp looks like it is "on top of" the surface rather than actually in the cymbal itself and it is much too clean.
That was my first thought, too. I suspect that that isn't a legit "stamp" since it doesn't look like a stamp (looks like ink) and those lathe lines don't look like any Avedis I've ever seen.

I had a lively little debate with a local guy selling a cymbal on CL that he listed as an Avedis but the picture clearly showed that it was a Scimitar. I emailed him about that and he said that "Avedis" was stamped right into it (along with some really colorful language about where I should spend eternity). I guess I don't know enough about Scimitar's - do they say "Avedis" anywhere on them? I wouldn't think so, but who knows?
 

jer

Silver Member
Closest I could find with those lathe lines:

http://cgi.ebay.com/20-Zildjian-Scimitar-Ride-Cymbal-Very-Nice-NR-99_W0QQitemZ300403134510QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f16c102e

In the same ebay search, I found a Scimitar "Bronze", who's stamp clearly shows "Avedis":

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zildjian-20-Ride-Cymbal-Med-Thin-Bronze-Scimitar_W0QQitemZ160402091559QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2558b5ae27

I had a set of these when I got my first kit. They had a thin protective film on them, that over time flaked and peeled off... the ride was the only decent cymbal, I actually kept it as I upgraded everything else...
 

Stewed

Member
Could be Vintage.

If you count vintage as being 25 years old or older.

I have to third or fourth the Scimitar ID. Could be an Amir

Amirs were sold in the mid 80s.

Scimitars from the late 80s to early 90s.

I had a Scimitar 16 crash that I quite liked for a long time. It was quick, and just a bit dark and dirty crash. It developed an edge crack after about 20 years of use.

It had it's place and I would say I got my money's worth.
 
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