HELP !!!!!! UPS claim.

john gerrard

Senior Member
I just bought a Gretsch Renown set from a person on you know what bay. They were packaged by UPS. Long story short. The bass drum was badly damaged. I mean a major crack. The 12 tom was inside the floor tom ,inside the bass drum which looks to have been dropped. It looks like the floor tom leg mount was crushed against the inside of the bass drum and put a 4 inch crack in the shell. If anybody has ever had a claim with UPS I would like to know how they delt with it.

!. The seller insured the drums for the full amount, but I'm the one responsible for the claim ?
2. Will UPS pro rate the value of the drum because it was used? or will they pay replacement value? Or will the pay the full insured amount. The toms are worthless without the kick.
3. I'm between a rock and a hard place, any information you can give me will greatly be appreciated. Thanks John
 

birks10

Senior Member
Hey John,

Bro, I FEEEEELLLL your pain!!!

Been there myself with UPS on more than one occasion as have, any other drum shippers/receivers.

I sold a Buddy Rich DW set to a fella down in Houston, TX who received the bass drum totally trashed. Box actually had truck tire or pallet loader skids all over it with mutiple holes and drum had as serious crack in it. UPS hire gorillas to handle your expensive equipment and if they pic up something too heavy for their lilly white hands, they abuse it just because odds are, nothing more will come of it. I know several people that this has happened to.

Your questions....

!. The seller insured the drums for the full amount, but I'm the one responsible for the claim ?

Ans: No. The shipper/seller took out the insurance and they are responsible to file the claim with UPS. Once he files, UPS will make an appointment with you to have an inspector come out and look at the box and the item. The drama only begins here.

2. Will UPS pro rate the value of the drum because it was used? or will they pay replacement value? Or will the pay the full insured amount. The toms are worthless without the kick.

Ans: UPS is responsible to pay for insured value of the item. In other words, each drum in your case was insured separately. If the bass drum is the damaged item, UPS will only pay the maximum amount that the bass drum was insured for by the seller/shipper. If that amount is less than what it takes to repair or replace the drum, then you'll have to work out the balance due with your seller. Hope he is honest.

3. I'm between a rock and a hard place, any information you can give me will greatly be appreciated. Thanks John

In my case that i previously spoke to , I had to refund the guy i sold the drum to in Houston, the amount to get the drum fixed. I lost several hundred dollars on the deal.. You sell on Ebay and this may happen, it may not, but the more you sell and use UPS, the more the risk goes up that it will happen to you. There is a slightly lower risk if you just ship via the Post Office, at least, that's what the experience of others have been.

Kelly
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
Briks10 and jkevn, thank you both so much. I have a three day return policy on my purchase. I can send them back to the original seller and get a refund on my money. The only thing is that I have to pay return shipping which will cost about a $100.00. Right now I'm willing to eat the return shipping cost and let the seller fight with UPS. I might fight with them and at least get them to give me a break on return shipping. It is really sad because the Gretsch Renowns were very pristine. I just really hurts to see a beautiful set of drums destroyed by UPS. I guess this isn't the first time nor will it be the last time. I'm just lucky that I can get out from under it with just the return shipping cost.

Thank you again. John
 

creepshow

Member
I have heard horror stories about UPS's shipping. Apparently, they hire morons and stuff gets damaged and mis-shipped quite a bit. Hope you get everything sorted out. Good luck!
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
If its only cost you 100,consider yourself lucky...cut and run.Saving yourself the agrivation alone is worth the money.I've dealt with UPS before and its was just a horror.Good luck.

Steve B
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
The problem with shipping drums is that they are big but light weight and easily tossed. Tis a shame thought that the Renowns were damaged.
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
Well as of yesterday I contacted the seller and told him that he was the one who had to file the claim, which he then contacted UPS. Now I'm waiting to hear from UPS to make arrangements to send an adjuster. I have my fingers crossed that this goes smooth. I have saved the box and packaging to show them. I have also heard horror stories about trying to collect a shipping claim. I really feel sorry for the seller because he has been very understanding. It is really a shame because it is neither of our fault. The real crime is the Renowns. They were as close to new as you can get. A beautiful Cherry Burst.

I will keep you all informed if for nothing else it will be a reference for any one who may go through this in the future. Thanks. John
 

Soupy

Silver Member
You shouldn't be paying to ship them back. You should refuse delivery of damaged goods, not pay to ship them back.

eBay has buyer protection as well. Really, this situation should end up with the buyer taking back the drums and you getting all your money back, including shipping. Unless the seller adds a special clause to the listing details, the seller is responsible for packing, shipping, and insuring the item. The loss comes from his pocket if he failed to pack/ship/insure appropriately. That's also an important lesson for anyone selling things on eBay as well! know both the eBay and Paypal policies for buyer and seller protection, and what requirements you have to meet to be covered under their policies.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Exactly. You owe no one anything. If UPS packed the drums, then UPS is the responsible party in all aspects, packing, shipping, delivery. File the claim, let UPS send them back to the seller, and all you have spent is time. Pay no one one red cent.
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
O.K. Here's what happened (I believe). The seller packed the 10 inch tom, wrapped in old t-shirts inside of the floor tom,wrapped with a heavy packing quilt inside of the bass drum along with the tom mounts which I believe were wrapped in old t-shirts also. Packed this all together put the heads back on the kick and took it to UPS to be packed along with a 8 inch tom inside of a 12 inch tom. The 8 inside of the 12 were packaged seperately with no problem. UPS took the bass drum with the other two drums inside of it, bubble wrapped it, put it into a box with the floor tom legs and added the foam peanuts.

Now somewhere this box was dropped or something very heavy was dropped on it. When I got it there were no visible marks on the outside of the box. When I took the bubble wrap off of the kick drum and saw the apprx 5 inch crack in it I was sick. Also it looks like UPS did not secure the floor tom legs which they just placed in the box alongside the kick and the legs put two big gouges in the kick also. After I calmed down and really inspected everything it looks like the floor tom leg mount is what was driven into the inside of the kick. You can tell that the kick was cracked from the inside out. You can even see particles of the shipping blanket that the floor tom was wrapped in stuck to the inside of the kick where it is cracked. I looked inside of the floor tom and could see where the 10 inch that was wrapped inside of it had dented the inside of the floor tom.

The thing UPS is going to fight over is that there was no visible damage to the outside of the box to indicate that kind of force. You can see a dent on the inside of the box right where the crack would have been located on the drum. I think the reason for this was that the drum was bubble wrapped and had the foam peanuts around it to prevent it from going through the box.

Well that is how I think it happened. Let's just hope that UPS is understanding enough to honor the claim. I will keep you posted. John

P.S. Just remember if you ever ship ANYTHING, you can't over secure it. Use plenty of wrapping and protection. And be sure to insure it.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Shaken Baby syndrome causes brain damage because the brain bangs around on the inside of the skull. There is no visible damage to the outside of the head. The floor toms or other toms banged around inside the box causing damage to the bass drum. There needn't be damage to the outside of the box for the inside to be damaged. They packed it. They are responsible
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
Guntersdad, I like the way you explained that. If you don't mind I may use your analogy. :>) Thank you . John
P.S. Really that is what happened. It shouldn't be hard to convince UPS as to what happened. But when you want to collect money off of some one else, common sense and logic somehow go out the door. I'm still waiting for UPS to set up an appointment with their adjuster. John
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
Just a update. Got a call from a UPS office and the guy told me to pack the damaged drum in the original box with the original packing. (now this makes no sense to me so I asked him "you mean I don't even get to show you or explain anything" ) He said no just to pack it up. I asked him if I need to address it because at the time I didn't have the shippers address, he said no that they would have a return lable for it. The drums came in two boxes so I asked him about the other box. He said that was my responsibilty. I argued with him that the reason that I had to return the drums was because UPS damaged the kick drum and they should have to pay to return all of the drums. Might as well been talking to the moon, he wouldn't budge.

Well they picked the 1 box up Thursday evening. I wasn't home but my wife was. Now remember back when the guy told me just to pack them up and I didn't need to address them? Well about 2 hours after they picked them up my wife got a call from UPS wanting to know where the box was to be shipped. How dumb can you be? So she told them the only thing that she knew was to look on the old lable.

Well I did have the tracking number and as of today they are scheduled to be delivered to Knoxville where they came from, I guess that would be the UPS store that they were shipped from. Don't know if they have ever been inspected by UPS or not.

The other box that I had to pay $25 to return is scheduled to be delivered on Monday. I explained to the seller that I have done all that I can do and would like a refund as soon as possibe. He explained ( and I don't blame him) that he wouldn't refund until he received his drums back.

So that is where it all stands as of today. Thanks for showing the interest. Hope that in some way this may help someone out in the same situtation some day. John
 

birks10

Senior Member
John,

The confusion...the mayhem... the feeling that you're being manhandled by UPS... Typical with UPS. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

There's something seriously "squirrely" abut them not inspecting the items in front of you. I would have NOT packed up anything and would have arranged to have been present when the guy showed up. Did they send an inspector or was it just a UPS driver that showed up?

Also, and i wish i would have said this to you earlier, taking pictures of everything would have been the way top go. Maybe you did that?

Well, as long as the seller refunds you, then it should be ok. But the lack of real info makes one wonder what's actually going on. The bottom line for UPS is that they don't want to have to pay back the seller for any insurance claims Dealing with UPS is just like that insurance company in the movie "The Rainmaker", where the insurance company refused to pay for the kids bone marrow transplant and the kid died because of it.

Kelly
 

Bertram

Silver Member
I've never done business with Ebay, or something like that, since everything has to get shipped about half way around the earth, and im pretty sure i'lll get something broken or atleast half past destroyed...
Especially something as expensive as drums. I mean, if i have to return them i already lost about 100-200 $ which is quite alot for a guy at the age of 15. And almost every post i look at, it says either "No Returns accepted" Or "No shipping to your destination". Or a 3rd one "Shipping: 359$"

Good luck though! - I see those pictures, of drums totally destroyed, in my head :( feels awful.
 

john gerrard

Senior Member
Well this morning I checked my email and found that the seller had refunded my money. No communication from him, just a message from pay pal that he had refunded my money.

I have no idea how he setteled with UPS. I would really have liked to know how matters got resolved. At this point I'm just glad that I got my money back.

In the mean time I have purchased another kit from the auction bay. I have shared this story with the seller and cautioned him to package everything with the utmost of care.

I guess this thread really wasn't as much help to everyone as I thought it may be. I just hope that no one here ever has to go through this. Best wishes. John
 
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