Help Identifying Unstamped 20" 2400g's(ish) Ride Cymbal

[AdamOnDrumz]

I Recently came across this 20" Ride cymbal that after a long inspection has no stamp on it at all. Its weights around 2400g and just based on looks i would say that it was a Zildjian/Sabian. The first strange thing I noticed about it was how different the top and bottom lathing is.
The cymbal has very distinct Rectangle hammering on the top and bottom of the cymbal, from my research that would point towards a 50's/60's Zildjian but there's no stamp :').

I am fully aware of what stamps are and what to look out for but there's literally no physical stamp. However there is the remanence of a '20' ink logo and a 'E' ink logo which is assume once said 'RIDE 20'. Iv spent a lot of time on google image trying to find a brand based on the distinct letting of the 'E' but I cant find brand that used that particular 'E' font.

The other strange thing is the location of the 'E' and '20' as they are at the bottom of the cymbal top side which doesnt match with any Zildjian Or Sabian ink lettering that iv seen.

The rectangle hammering and the little bit of ink on the cymbal are the best clues I imagine, im no expert though! Any help on figuring out exactly what this is would be appreciated.
I can record a demo of the cymbal with a proper mic if it would help anyone!

 

[Soulfinger]

I have no idea other than the font of the ink reminds me of that used in countries that are not accustomed to the latin alphabet.
So I´m thinking China maybe...

 

[Morrisman]

I’m leaning towards Italian, like UFIP or Tosco…

 

[Bozozoid]

My initial was a Ludwig standard cymbal. Hmm.

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

My initial was a Ludwig standard cymbal. Hmm.

Yeah that's a great suggestion After a little research the problem is that there are Ludwig stamps in those cymbals and most of them are under 2000g's. As far as I can see they also didn't use ink the label those cymbal either and this sounds different!

 

[jda]

sounds like a cheaper smaller brand/ not a Ufip or Z or../ But another thing..

Any or all 20"s at +/-2400gs are going to have as many similarities as they have differences (equal amounts of both, either)
So if you can use a '20" at 2400gs" you're in
20" sweet spots (for a Ride) to me are +/- 1956-2067 g's

I had a Chinese Radian XL 20" that was at that weight but was Brass. I don't think (..) your's there is brass.
So there's that. +/-
could be a lower end Ufip series we've never heard of
and / or a lot of lathe chatter under the cup but I can't identify it +/-

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

sounds like a cheaper smaller brand/ not a Ufip or Z or../ But another thing..

Any or all 20"s at +/-2400gs are going to have as many similarities as they have differences (equal amounts of both, either)
So if you can use a '20" at 2400gs" you're in
20" sweet spots (for a Ride) to me are +/- 1956-2067 g's

I had a Chinese Radian XL 20" that was at that weight but was Brass. I don't think (..) your's there is brass.
So there's that. +/-
could be a lower end Ufip series we've never heard of
and / or a lot of lathe chatter under the cup but I can't identify it +/-

Thank you! Yeah its an usual one, it could be some sort of factory seconds, which is why it was never stamped.... might also explain why the top is so different in lathing pattern to the bottom... maybe it was just never quite Finnish!

The rectangle hammering is still the most unique thing about it in terms of identifying it, has anyone seen any other brand but Zildjian do this?
I read though this guide on vintage Zildjians and this hammering/lathe chatter looks the same as the cymbal i have (again I'm not convinced its a Zildjian).
The images are from a website talking about Zildjian hammering

 

[vyacheslav]

It almost looks like a modern day Wuhan, but those are hand hammered and you would see that, not the rectangular marks. It's possible that it is OEM for a certain drum company that was made by Zildjian/Sabian/UFIP etc. It definitely looks like B20 alloy. Another reason it wouldn't be a Ludwig Standard or Ludwig Paiste is that all of those were Nickel-Silver I believe. Very curious. Does it have a small center hole? Does it fit over a sleeve on an 8mm threading stand? A smaller hole would mean older (most likely)-usually mid-60's or older. I'm more in the camp of UFIP/Tosco/Italian made. The only thing that matters though, is does it sound good to you?

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

Those marks were made from a "toothed wheel" that Zildjian has been using since at least the mid/ealy 1970's on A Zildjian and many other series to this day.

They call it a "rotary hammer" but there isn't any reciprocating or hammering motion involved.

I would assume that is either an Azco (Canadian) produced cymbal or a manufacturer that uses a similar device.

View attachment 139082

View attachment 139083

Ahh that makes a lot of sense! Thank you very much. I will keep searching for other brands that used that 'toothed wheel' rectangle pattern!

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

It almost looks like a modern day Wuhan, but those are hand hammered and you would see that, not the rectangular marks. It's possible that it is OEM for a certain drum company that was made by Zildjian/Sabian/UFIP etc. It definitely looks like B20 alloy. Another reason it wouldn't be a Ludwig Standard or Ludwig Paiste is that all of those were Nickel-Silver I believe. Very curious. Does it have a small center hole? Does it fit over a sleeve on an 8mm threading stand? A smaller hole would mean older (most likely)-usually mid-60's or older. I'm more in the camp of UFIP/Tosco/Italian made. The only thing that matters though, is does it sound good to you?

Yeah i agree, it looks very lightly hammered at best, not heavily hand hammered.
Its centre hole looks like a 'modern' size, it measures slightly shy of 13mm.

I'm still thinking its a unstamped Zildjian/Sabian (Given their connection) made for another company or a seconds simply... because of the look and sound of the metal and the fact that I haven't been any other company use that 'Toothed wheel' Rectangle pattern on a cymbal.

I mean its sounds kind of cool, its got a great ping I'm just not sure if its for me! I just want know what it is every time I play it, but I'm fairly sure without the stamp its going to be impossible haha! Very curious indeed!
Here's some close ups of the bell:

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

One other thing I forgot to mention: On the top of the cymbal, at the edge, there's a ring of very smooth lathing for almost half and a inch all the way around, which might make it easier to know what it is/isn't? Here's some close ups:

 

[jda]

was there a previous owner that could shed any light on it's origins

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

was there a previous owner that could shed any light on it's origins

I brought it off gumtree literally two weeks ago, and the person just called it 'vintage cymbal' claiming to no nothing about it.... but i wont hurt to ask. Thanks!

 

[AdamOnDrumz]

I brought it off gumtree literally two weeks ago, and the person just called it 'vintage cymbal' claiming to no nothing about it.... but i wont hurt to ask. Thanks!

The seller replied saying they know nothing about it. He brought it from a charity shop a while back!

 

[I-P]

Underside of bell doesn't indicate (to me/from what I can see) rotocasting.
Doesn't rule out Italian made however.

The answer is out there.