Having a hard time

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Rapping is just talking with rhythm. We all do that to an extent anyway. The hardest part is going to be learning how to sing. I'd start there, but just a few days probably isn't enough time.
Good luck.
Well, I hate to brag, but my singing is probably what got my drumming out to the public for the last 40 years. It’s gotten worse over the years with age, but I’ve discovered warming up properly helps (and that’s been more constant over the last 15 years). And knowing when to say “I can’t do that” also helps 😉
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Oddly enough I’m doing Santeria too. That one seems easier for me for some reason - probably because there’s no rapping involved. Maybe I can’t get my head around rapping - that’s always something somebody else would do 😉
Rapping is just like musical notation, only instead of notes its syllables. There is a rhythm to rapping. Inside it you will find the same things you find in a wrote sheet: triplets, rests, shuffles, etc. It just happens to be words.

I cant rap at all. But I can rap along (horribly) to something someone else wrote because it does follow musical "rules". Just keep listening to the song, you will get it.
 

jazzerooty

Junior Member
My apologies to all the new folks we have here just struggling with their love of "just drumming", but I think I've hit a brick wall. I'm up for an audition this weekend in a heavy working covers band and one of their tunes they asked that they wanted me to do with them is Sublime's What I got. The other seven songs they asked for are pretty straight forward so I figure those don't need that much time spent on them. But this tune, originally done with a drum loop, allowed the singer/rapper to kinda go in and out of time to make his word phrasing fit.

Well, here I am, tackling the song as both the singer/rapper, and as the drummer. I almost want to protest and tell them I'm bringing a drum machine for this one. But I know how much more impressive it would be if I played it in perfect time, and sang/rapped it like the original recording. Combine this with the fact that I've never really rapped before, well, you know where I'm at with it. I'm taking a break to let my neural network process what I've just done, but it's no where near perfect. For some reason, give me a song that needs to be sung, and I have no problem playing around with the phrasing while I'm playing. Give me a rap song and that should be easier since I no longer have to worry about being in tune or anything "musical" - I should be able to push the phrasing around at will. I think I hit this wall because the words don't necessarily make any sense - I could be reading the telephone book - so I can't make it flow.

I'm sure we must have drummers here who've done this same kind of thing. How did you get around it? Is using a drum loop the only way? Perhaps if I give myself a few more hours on it I'll get it. But right now I'm taking a break!
 

jazzerooty

Junior Member
I don't envy your attempt to emulate a robotic groove. I do applaud your attempt. It's a tough racket, as you well know. I'd read the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius to strengthen yourself against the tide of idiocy that rules the "music industry."
 

cbphoto

Gold Member
I’ve never met @Bo Eder. I’ve never even seen him working the FOH boards at The Mouse House. All I’ve ever witnessed are his posts, and—to me—I think Bo will nail the audition. He’s sweating the details, but I think it’ll go down smooth as butter. He’s prolly a bit worried ‘cuz COVID/quarantine/isolation/etc. but he’s gonna post something here tonight or tomorrow saying, “It’s all good. They like my drum face and can tolerate my voice.”
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I’ve never met @Bo Eder. I’ve never even seen him working the FOH boards at The Mouse House. All I’ve ever witnessed are his posts, and—to me—I think Bo will nail the audition. He’s sweating the details, but I think it’ll go down smooth as butter. He’s prolly a bit worried ‘cuz COVID/quarantine/isolation/etc. but he’s gonna post something here tonight or tomorrow saying, “It’s all good. They like my drum face and can tolerate my voice.”
Thanks for your vote of confidence! I’m starting my last minute cram before I head out to audition at 6pm, so we’ll see what happens. Hopefully your good vibes will work. The band sent me an excited email about getting together tonight so hopefully means it’ll bode well.

but honestly, I’m worried about taking on a lot of projects right before I get called back to work. By July, I may not be able to handle too many outside things. But if Disney ain’t calling, I’m gonna push forward. It’d be wild if I took on so much work, I wouldn’t have to go back 😉
 

MG1127

Well-known member
From what I know of Bo ... and I do know a bit about him being that we dwell in the same area of the world... he commonly downplays his abilities and walks with a humble approach.

trust me guys when I say the guy and both play and sing
 
Do you have a recording of the band and former drummer playing this song ? I could see that being helpful . I’d sing and listen to the song as often as I could and play it on the kit without singing often then work on both together .
Good luck Bo ! I have a feeling you’ll do well , or we’ll enough that the band should see that you’ll get it given the short period of time you had to prepare, .... especially if all the other songs are down and you nail them . Again , good luck to you sir 👍🏻!!!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Well, as fate would have it, the audition is postponed. In this period of Covid, they called to tell me the bass player has gotten sick, and due to Covid, they want to see how he’s doing over the next few days. If it ends up not being Covid then that’s good news, but it gives me a few more days to get it together.

so hopefully I’ll be auditioning soon!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
UPDATE!

My audition happened tonight and it was over within 45 minutes. Thankfully, the bass player did not contract covid, he said he just had food poisoning, and is feeling better. It was nice to hear that they liked my solid time, even as my vocal phrasing could go way outside where it should be. And they were understanding that I was tackling quite a few styles that were kinda tricky.

It was nice to hear what they weren't getting with their stable of subs they've been using since their regular drummer went back home - the age-old problem of young drummers not being able to play softly and steady, or when they play louder they go faster (and consequently when they get softer they slow down). They realize it's an age thing - so at my age, those problems just don't exist (it's been beaten out of me by now).

Of course, they want to discuss what just happened although they were all smiles after we were done, but it sounds like I could be the main guy if our schedules work out. Part of the discussion was gear - these guys just need to see four drums or less. They want a nice controlled sound, and I even used my Blasticks instead of regular sticks for this audition.

But this is such a lesson for the younger drummers out there, and it's very typical (I hear it all the time). Get close to the recording, but the time must be solid. In fact, don't play ANY fills. The band is looking for the glue that will hold it together, and they're not gonna get that if you're more concerned about the licks or fills you've been practicing. The bigger view is important: the audience wants to dance to the song, so give them the song. Being part of the team is what people are looking for in drummers. I'm sure folks here will argue against and scream "I'm an artist and I must present my art", but in reality, nobody cares. Once you realize what your role actually is as the drummer in the band, that kinda dictates what you should be studying, that is, if you want to work. Some folks are totally content with the WOW factor, and that's ok. But if you're looking to work, the less is more approach during an audition is good.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
If a guitar player can strum chords, or play a riff, while singing this tune, then you can manage a drum beat while singing, too.

Practice slow, and you’ll learn fast. Slow the tune down, and figure out when syllables line up with drum hits, or fit between. It’s a big project, for sure, but feasible. How long do you have to prepare?

I think his concern was not simply the singing, but the syncopation and subdividing in the vocals on this song. It may literally be like adding a fifth element of independence to the existing four.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
The bigger view is important: the audience wants to dance to the song, so give them the song.
Yes, but sometimes the the audience is there not to dance but specifically to see the band, and sometimes "the song" has more than a basic back beat. Sometimes the entire front of the audience is air drumming to "the song".

Being part of the team is what people are looking for in drummers. I'm sure folks here will argue against and scream "I'm an artist and I must present my art", but in reality, nobody cares. Once you realize what your role actually is as the drummer in the band, that kinda dictates what you should be studying, that is, if you want to work. Some folks are totally content with the WOW factor, and that's ok. But if you're looking to work, the less is more approach during an audition is good.

That's not necessarily the argument. Playing something complex isn't necessarily vain. Nobody wants to hear a Dream Theater cover with your own basic back beat because "the audience wants to dance to the song", if in fact they came to see you play a DT cover.
And sometimes being "part of the team" as a drummer means being able to keep up with the rest of the band on a technical level.
 
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someguy01

Well-known member
Just remember while dropping rhymes: Triple slippin' MC's will get verbally raped. Send ya home with that look on your face " Like, damn!"
 

Yamaha Rider

Well-known member
For what my opinion is worth (not much) - it sounds like the rap part is meant to be in time, and largely is, but the vocalist can't quite stay in the groove.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I see the merits of the arguments. There is a big list of working WOW drummers on the DW list that seem to steady gig and make a good living at it. Some young ones don’t even gig and make good money on YT. Seems there is room for all types of drummers. Friend of mine is in a country band (lots of original songs but a dance cover band too) eliminated the drummer- well the singer bought a small cocktail kit and he has learned to play the simple stuff for their band- more money for all. They sound great. But damn made drumming so simple even the singer can do it. WTH? I predict a wave of replacing drummers after COVID- if musicians follow the drum forum here they realize what PITA drummers are and they could put a bounty on our heads ROFL.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
UPDATE!

My audition happened tonight and it was over within 45 minutes. Thankfully, the bass player did not contract covid, he said he just had food poisoning, and is feeling better. It was nice to hear that they liked my solid time, even as my vocal phrasing could go way outside where it should be. And they were understanding that I was tackling quite a few styles that were kinda tricky.

It was nice to hear what they weren't getting with their stable of subs they've been using since their regular drummer went back home - the age-old problem of young drummers not being able to play softly and steady, or when they play louder they go faster (and consequently when they get softer they slow down). They realize it's an age thing - so at my age, those problems just don't exist (it's been beaten out of me by now).

Of course, they want to discuss what just happened although they were all smiles after we were done, but it sounds like I could be the main guy if our schedules work out. Part of the discussion was gear - these guys just need to see four drums or less. They want a nice controlled sound, and I even used my Blasticks instead of regular sticks for this audition.

But this is such a lesson for the younger drummers out there, and it's very typical (I hear it all the time). Get close to the recording, but the time must be solid. In fact, don't play ANY fills. The band is looking for the glue that will hold it together, and they're not gonna get that if you're more concerned about the licks or fills you've been practicing. The bigger view is important: the audience wants to dance to the song, so give them the song. Being part of the team is what people are looking for in drummers. I'm sure folks here will argue against and scream "I'm an artist and I must present my art", but in reality, nobody cares. Once you realize what your role actually is as the drummer in the band, that kinda dictates what you should be studying, that is, if you want to work. Some folks are totally content with the WOW factor, and that's ok. But if you're looking to work, the less is more approach during an audition is good.

Well, we all knew you'd kill it, congrats!

Sometimes musicians get a heavy dose of experience with the wrong drummers, and this experience colours the band's expectations, to the point that they'll even decide how many drums you're going to bring to the gig. In this case, it sounds like a handful of amateur-level drummers have made it so that the gig requirements have become quite particular: no fills, 4 or less drums, sing lead on some tunes, etc.

I wonder, if they had been working with better sub players, would they have become so particular about having, say, three toms? Would they mind the occasional fill, if they had experienced many fills that were tasteful and delivered in time? Would they be so sensitive about the drummer's volume, if they had experienced a well-balanced combination of tuned drums and high-quality cymbals?

IMO, the lesson here -- for young, aspiring drummers that want to get out into the world of professional, paid gigs in front of an actual audience -- is to really dig deep and find out what the band wants from you, and do those things. It's a job, after all.

(The ability to play steady, whether quiet or loud, is particularly difficult for young drummers to learn. Prescription = lots and lots of metronome, of course.)
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
That's not necessarily the argument. Playing something complex isn't necessarily vain. Nobody wants to hear a Dream Theater cover with your own basic back beat because "the audience wants to dance to the song", if in fact they came to see you play a DT cover.
And sometimes being "part of the team" as a drummer means being able to keep up with the rest of the band on a technical level.
true that. Nothing annoys people more than not playing the song. I see this all the time. Simple beats are stripped down to nothing losing all feel of the song or overplaying it. It’s not just me being judgmental as a drummer. You can see it on the dance floor. All the wasted drunks are on the floor flailing about, but others are gathering further away from the speakers trying to have a conversation. If the band nails it, everyone is far more locked in and with it.

There was no doubt Bo would nail it, but it was a good conversation.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Yes, but sometimes the the audience is there not to dance but specifically to see the band, and sometimes "the song" has more than a basic back beat. Sometimes the entire front of the audience is air drumming to "the song".



That's not necessarily the argument. Playing something complex isn't necessarily vain. Nobody wants to hear a Dream Theater cover with your own basic back beat because "the audience wants to dance to the song", if in fact they came to see you play a DT cover.
And sometimes being "part of the team" as a drummer means being able to keep up with the rest of the band on a technical level.
Like I said - people will argue this one. This one with the notion that I’m talking about doing the wrong thing in a different context. How stupid do you think I am?

but then again, how many DT-only tribute bands are out there making $350 per member per show at least two times a week?
 

BruceW

Senior Member
Yes, but sometimes the the audience is there not to dance but specifically to see the band, and sometimes "the song" has more than a basic back beat. Sometimes the entire front of the audience is air drumming to "the song".



That's not necessarily the argument. Playing something complex isn't necessarily vain. Nobody wants to hear a Dream Theater cover with your own basic back beat because "the audience wants to dance to the song", if in fact they came to see you play a DT cover.
And sometimes being "part of the team" as a drummer means being able to keep up with the rest of the band on a technical level.
Sounds to me like the band is going to be marketed as a dance band, for appropriate venues that expect dancing.

So if thats the case, yes, playing it so that people can dance is far more appropriate than playing it for those there to watch the band (not even going down the Dream Theater road, a whole different crowd), who likely aren't gonna be in those venues anyway.

I fully expect that Bo will add his own flair, where appropriate. The lesson still applies...show that you can serve the song first, then work in some frills and thrills as you get comfortable with the crew.

Thanks for the update, Bo. Keep us posted as the project proceeds
 
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