Has anyone ever felt like they need to hold onto the stick far up or all the way back?

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I guess just that I wouldn't usually use an "awkward" grip for too long unless there was a specific purpose. As I mentioned, sometimes that purpose is a different sound, but that's not usually something I'll need for a whole song or during most passages. For those short situations I sometimes find that pushing my first finger further forward allows for some control and a more "solid" note on say a cymbal, but once that part is over, I'll move back to the most efficient grip I normally gravitate towards; typically closer to the butt end.

When you say "slipping" you mean you are sort of constantly choking up on the stick as you play?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I hold the sticks as far back as I can for the most reach.

The butt of the stick, with normal volume, does not extend past my wrist joint.
 

Iristone

Well-known member
Trad player here. I tend to grab both sticks so the thumb, index and middle fingers are around the Vic Firth logo (or equivalent locations on other brands). Sometimes it slips a bit, so my left thumb falls on the logo and the whole hand seems to be at the middle of the stick.
 

Rock Salad

Junior Member
I guess just that I wouldn't usually use an "awkward" grip for too long unless there was a specific purpose. As I mentioned, sometimes that purpose is a different sound, but that's not usually something I'll need for a whole song or during most passages. For those short situations I sometimes find that pushing my first finger further forward allows for some control and a more "solid" note on say a cymbal, but once that part is over, I'll move back to the most efficient grip I normally gravitate towards; typically closer to the butt end.

When you say "slipping" you mean you are sort of constantly choking up on the stick as you play?
E7F4BB0F-512F-4D7A-ABB0-5D81F7B2CBF4.jpeg
It's really just experimenting. But yes, on the rebound maybe I am letting the stick return too far and when it's vertical it slips a little here and there.

My go to that I know works is back by the butt too though, reach and velocity are easier.
 

CommanderRoss

Silver Member
Depends on my musical need at the time.
I play heavier sticks (Vic Firth Thomas Lang sigs) & finesse can be a bit tricky. To fix this, I choke up on it & it evens the weight out.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
So the only time I would hold it like that is perhaps to exaggerate some really small tapping notes. Think of your swing like a little arc as it might be in a big wrist-based whip stroke. You're generating inertia which if you desire can turn into rebound. Holding too far forward for most playing stunts that concept. Try holding it in different places and pretending it's a literal whip, find where the balance works best. If your hold is balanced to the stick then it'll be easier to not slip up the stick.

I think that differences in sticks and where the weight is, along with differences in human hands is just one more reason I don't like to say there's an "ideal" place to hold the stick. I've seen some really funky looking playing that sounded super clean and articulate as a few people have pointed out.

In terms of controlling the second note as you mention might be where you're slipping, I might recommend practicing doubles on a big floor tom or soft-ish surface. It really forces you to exaggerate the movements and use your back fingers to control the stick.
 
P

Peedy

Guest
We did a 12-8 song for Zoom Church last week. It was the first time I ever played 12-8 live. I used bundles choked way up till only 40% was extending past my hands. It was the only way I could control speed and accents.

Felt weird but it worked out well.

Pete
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
View attachment 95842
It's really just experimenting. But yes, on the rebound maybe I am letting the stick return too far and when it's vertical it slips a little here and there.

My go to that I know works is back by the butt too though, reach and velocity are easier.
I can honestly say that in 32 years of playing I’ve never held the stick that high, but that’s not to say it’s wrong. I’m a knuckle dragging rock drummer where power is the name of the game. My thumb basically sits on the VF flag and my fulcrum changes between all of my fingers, from pinky to forefinger, depending on what I’m doing. I play palms down matched grip so wrists also come into play.

Depends on my musical need at the time.
I play heavier sticks (Vic Firth Thomas Lang sigs) & finesse can be a bit tricky. To fix this, I choke up on it & it evens the weight out.
I think I know what you mean. I use STL’s and let the little finger and ring finger become the fulcrum and control the stick from the back which gives more control for finesse if that makes sense?🤔. In fact the older I get the more I’m controlling the stick from there. When I started I had a forefinger fulcrum!!

I love chats like this because everyone has their way, and there aren’t really any wrongs (as long as you’re not hurting yourself), different strokes work for different folks. (y) :)
 

bongoman

Junior Member
I usually go between a middle of the road light grip on the balance point, and holding the stick so the butt end is at the center of my palm. I can’t really explain the second one except that sometimes it just seems to give me the control and flow that I need for certain strokes.
 
I've been working on a "spiral" grip that produces strokes via back and forth rotation of the stick around its long axis, as in the image below. The rotational fulcrum is between the thumb and pinky, though for fully developed hands generally not as far back on the stick as in this image.


Figure_12_for_video.jpg
 

Sebenza

Member
I've been working on a "spiral" grip that produces strokes via back and forth rotation of the stick around its long axis, as in the image below. The rotational fulcrum is between the thumb and pinky, though for fully developed hands generally not as far back on the stick as in this image.


View attachment 97816
I gathered from some other threads you are still beginning to learn how to play and I have to honestly say that this looks like nonsense to me.

If you're still learning how to play with sticks, go with the common (and proven) techniques first, and once you mastered those, feel free to venture out on any exotic paths you come across. But this type of stuff seems to me like it'll do more harm than good when you're just starting out.

There are no shortcuts to superb technique, you know...it's all a matter of putting in the hours with the correct movements and this is not it.
 
I gathered from some other threads you are still beginning to learn how to play and I have to honestly say that this looks like nonsense to me.

If you're still learning how to play with sticks, go with the common (and proven) techniques first, and once you mastered those, feel free to venture out on any exotic paths you come across. But this type of stuff seems to me like it'll do more harm than good when you're just starting out.

There are no shortcuts to superb technique, you know...it's all a matter of putting in the hours with the correct movements and this is not it.
Ha! Well I appreciate healthy skepticism, but check out www.counterspiral.com
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Ha! Well I appreciate healthy skepticism, but check out www.counterspiral.com
I watched the hand and feet deconstruction videos. Is that you in the video? Seems fishy that Counterspiral is brand new, deals with the exact same things you ask if anyone does in the other thread, and now you are here showing it off.

If it's not you, I apologize. If it is you, coming to a forum and fishing for "customers" is a horrible way to sell anything.

BTW, the stick is supposed to rotate freely in the hand as you play. Keeping a solid grip on it to do the spirals can potentially damage the hands through impact and vibration.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
In an effort to clarify terms, the balance point of the stick, and the fulcrum, are two completely different things.

Fulcrum is defined as the point on the stick where it changes direction, which is up to the player. The fulcrum is not the balance point. The balance point is the balance point.

The balance point is an unchangeable fixed point, a property of that particular stick. (not accounting for stick wear, which could possibly change the balance point over time)

The fulcrum is a player selected point and is changeable. It's wherever the player puts it. I play at the back of the stick, but when I have to play super light, I choke up on the stick. I changed the fulcrum point, thus I lessened the leverage force (by shortening the lever) for the same amount of input power.

Big differences.
 

drumnut87

Well-known member
i used to hold onto the stick wayyyy back, almsot at the end when i was younger, but as i grew and evolved as a player i changed my grip, now i hold it about 1/3 of the way up from the back. unless im playing traditional grip of course.
 
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