Had enough...

rogue_drummer

Gold Member
Not to be a smart aleck (well maybe a little) but the next time some bogus guitar player tells me to "play the floor tom on this part, put a crash in here, 'pop' the snare here, use the hats on this part but don't use the ride here, and do the kick on 1 and 3 only and only play the snare on 2 and 4 here and do a wood block sound right here, and you've GOT to meet my buddy, he's an awesome drummer, he can really play",

I'm going to suggest they "turn up the gain on their amp, cause a lot of reverb, ease back on the treble here, play really soft here, and can you play your guitar with a Mexian Peso like Billy Gibbons does. I just looks so cool. And can you please wear a rainbow guitar strap, I LOVE rainbow guitar straps!! And boy, you HAD to have met Les Paul, THAT guy was amazing."

Of course that's probably when the fight starts, but hey.....
 

New Tricks

Platinum Member
One one hand, music is a team sport.

On the other hand, I have never played with anyone that even suggested what I play. None of them seem to give a crap.

Is your guy just a better player than mine or just more of a pain in the ass?

Or, maybe I'm just that good? :)
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
It's one thing when a bandleader, musical director, or songwriter tells me as a hired gun what to play. I mean, that's what gets my check in my hand. It's quite another when one musician turns to another and tells him how to play his instrument. No matter what instrument is being referred to, it can be pretty insulting.

Having said that, at least the guitar player knew the different parts of the set and knew how he wanted you to play them, that's pretty darn rare!
 

JosephDAqui

Silver Member
It's pretty simple, when you hear foolishness from self absorbed, self important guys like that, ask him to play your rusty trombone. :)
 

Super Phil

Senior Member
If I don't have anything particularly creative to play during a song then I am open to input on the drum part. If there is a drum part I come up with that I think is cool then that's the one i'm going with over what may have been suggested. (With original music anyway)
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
This shit drives me crazy.

Easiest way to deal with it is just say 'ok' or nod your head, but do whatever you want when the music starts.
 

Masheanhed

Senior Member
My response is to start playing air guitar and say "OK...but on that one part you should play wang wang wiggy wig barang and on that bridge you should do a doodle doodle doodle do wow wow wow." They either get my point and shut up or call 911 for a straight jacket.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Are you talking about original songs or covers? If it is originals and there is a group effort or one person in particular wrote the music I could see them writing drum parts but we really don't have enough info to go by. Any big band back in the day would have parts written, and I'm sure when the Beatles were writing there was input from all especially the producer, so I'm not sure it's totally out of the question but I'm not there. Maybe some more info.
 

julius

Member
We were in rehearsal for a gig with a known small stage and the guitarist said "maybe don't bring your floor tom". I looked at him and really wanted to say "maybe don't bring your A string". Instead I just said the kit is an instrument, it's not eight separate instruments.

As it turns out I was able to fit on the stage just fine.
 

BFrench501

Senior Member
Not to be a smart aleck (well maybe a little) but the next time some bogus guitar player tells me to "play the floor tom on this part, put a crash in here, 'pop' the snare here, use the hats on this part but don't use the ride here, and do the kick on 1 and 3 only and only play the snare on 2 and 4 here and do a wood block sound right here, and you've GOT to meet my buddy, he's an awesome drummer, he can really play",

I'm going to suggest they "turn up the gain on their amp, cause a lot of reverb, ease back on the treble here, play really soft here, and can you play your guitar with a Mexian Peso like Billy Gibbons does. I just looks so cool. And can you please wear a rainbow guitar strap, I LOVE rainbow guitar straps!! And boy, you HAD to have met Les Paul, THAT guy was amazing."

Of course that's probably when the fight starts, but hey.....
Without full context its hard to judge the guitarist.

Sometimes a songwriter will have a vision for a song, and in that case I think its good to be able to do what they are asking you - to bring their ideas to life. I would try to look at that as a challenge.

It could be seen as selfish that if you do something thats cool then that automatically should override anyone elses opinion. It could be that you do something cool but its his song not yours.

There should always be room for compromise but I would look to play his idea then embellish on it and put your own touch to it. That would be a mature approach.

The bit about meeting his mate who is an awesome drummer who can really play - hmmm thats a bit naughty especially if he has said that after giving directions.

My basic philosophy is that I have to work with musicians who are sympathetic to other instruments. If I hear something on a guitar that I think could be tried a different way, or to suggest a certain harmony I'd like to be able to make that suggestion and likewise, if I'm not getting the feel of something or somebody wants a certain type of beat then I really welcome that. Music is meant to be a collaborative effort.

You dont have to be able to play an instrument well to have an opinion. If you can communicate what you are hearing inside your head then you should be able to give your opinions. If they are suppressing your views but then offloading all of theirs then get out of there imho, but maybe you should try in a constructive way feeding ideas to him.

Don't make it a confrontation, try to embrace his way of working. He may not be doing it to be a douche he just may not realise.

If I'm wrong I apologise, but I can only go on the details that are in front of me and offer the approach I would take.
 

sdedge

Senior Member
well yes that is no fun,but it hard to judge here,.
Ive played with a guy he did the same thing to me,but with respect to my drum playing ,he just try to explain the drum part he had in his mind for the song ,and i played the part and edit my own things to it and the song was super.
But there must be some respect for your playing,.!!
 

rogue_drummer

Gold Member
Without going into too much detail, these are covers of praise songs. We had a rather sobering and less than stellar first meeting with a new worship leader. Basically everything we did as a band and choir we were told we were doing it wrong, which completely negated what the prior worship leader taught/led and the one before that. The band was even requested to play in a different key than what is in the charts, thereby having to transpose on the fly.

Several instruments/musicians were singled out (including drums) and sort of made to feel like we were idiots (to put it bluntly), after having eard us play only 1/2 of 1 song we weren't even aware we would be playing.

The band itself has been playing together for 2 - 3 years every Sunday with the same members. Each member has years of experience. For example, the lead guitar player is a veteran of the revolving LA bar scene and has played for years, the pianist has played at the same church for 27 years, plus taught, I've played off and on since age 11 (now 52), etc.

IMHO I believe it's pretty arrogant and cocky to walk in at a preliminary meet and greet and start ripping things apart without even being on the payroll or voted in.

Needless to say, this has caused a good amount of waves amongst the band and choir. The interim director was made to feel worthless also.
 

JustJames

Platinum Member
How about organising a discussion between you, the new guy and some of the other "old hands". You could point out that he's only in charge because you let him be in charge.

What he's doing is pretty much text book "new manager" stuff: come in and change everything so that it looks like you have something to contribute.

Sounds like somebody needs to be taken down a peg or two. If he won't climb down gracefully after a quiet word in private, then a more public confrontation may be called for.
 

Nancy_C

Senior Member
Another approach would be to focus the discussion on what's appropriate for the song itself, based on the lyrics and the overall message. You could say something like, "Interesting suggestion. However, the driving beat (or whatever) I've chosen better suits the uplifting message of this song."

Or: "That might sound good, but this" (brief demonstration) "works better with the lyrics of the verse, and creates a natural transition to the chorus."

As the drummer, you should know better than he does how a particular beat or rhythm will enhance a song. If there's a polite way to say that, great! If there's not, say it anyway. After all, he clearly isn't concerned about politeness.

A more fun thing to do would be to snort derisively and say, "As if I'd play something so trite!"
 

Red Menace

Platinum Member
I had a similar experience with an overreaching musician at church. He was trying to tell me to play my snare harder and proceeded to "show" me by hitting the snare loudly and muffling it with his left hand. I responded with 3 of 4 rimshots and told him "see how obnoxious that is?"

I figured out how to pacify him, just playing the RH part a little harder and now he seems happy.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
If someone suggests that I play a drum part, I try to hear how that passage would sound in my head. If I think it could work I'll suggest that we try each way of playing the part and compare. It's nice to be pushed into different ways of approaching the drum part to your usual shtick. I have not stayed in any band where there's been an overbearing PITA.
 

eclipseownzu

Gold Member
I am in two bands and in both cases all of us discuss every aspect of every song. If the guy who wrote the riffs hears something in his head I at least owe it to him to try. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, but by closing all other inputs the songs ultimately suffer. But being open to different ideas means I get to voice my opinion for song composition, vocal melodies, and every other aspect of songwriting. I think collaboration is the best way to be in a band.
 
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