Gretsch Bop Kit: What Do You Vintage Guys Think?

14x14 4417 is 72723 from 1966
8x12 4415 is 32936 from 1964
14x18 a correct 4244 33877 from 1964
all round head screws of course)
 
bongoman said:
Is it actually Starlight, or is it regular old silver that has darkened? The photos all show a much lighter silver where the heads covered them.

Plus the orphanage, the wrap damage, and current market conditions all knock $ off the probable selling price.
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You‘re right - it’s possible that it’s Silver Sparkle that’s darkened. It might be too light for Starlight. But Silver usually looks greener as it fades, not darker.

To be honest, I actually think Silver Sparkle is a pretty rare Gretsch finish as well, despite it not being particularly desirable. I haven’t seen many Gretsch RBs in Silver Sparkle. Mostly just 50s snare drums, not full kits, and definitely not many from the 60s.
 
Tamboreter said:
Front bass drum hoop inlay is a lighter color than the wrap on the drum shells. Maybe it's just the lighting. I would want pristine for $11K, and even then I couldn't afford it.
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For some reason, this is a really common issue with Gretsch sparkle wraps. Champagne and Burgundy are most notorious for discoloration of the inlay wrap. Maybe something to do with the glue that’s used for the inlays?
 
Tamboreter said:
Front bass drum hoop inlay is a lighter color than the wrap on the drum shells. Maybe it's just the lighting. I would want pristine for $11K, and even then I couldn't afford it.
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You quoted the wrong person.
That was a quote from Woods and Weather's description of that kit.
Cite them for the quote, please. Not me.
 
paulwellsdrums said:
You‘re right - it’s possible that it’s Silver Sparkle that’s darkened. It might be too light for Starlight. But Silver usually looks greener as it fades, not darker.

To be honest, I actually think Silver Sparkle is a pretty rare Gretsch finish as well, despite it not being particularly desirable. I haven’t seen many Gretsch RBs in Silver Sparkle. Mostly just 50s snare drums, not full kits, and definitely not many from the 60s.
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Starlight Sparkle will have a slight reddish/purple-ish hue to it. It's actually mixed into the finish.
 
paulwellsdrums said:
$10-15K absolutely was/is the going rate for Round Badge bop kits. They started regularly selling for those sums in the mid-2000s. Last year, I sold my 12/14/18 with a matching 5.5 snare through Good Hands for $5400, and that was a kit made of rewrapped orphans with extra holes and unoriginal bass drum hoops. Modifications/other issues tend to cut values in half, so by that math, an original RB bop kit should still command at least $10-12K.

I hope nobody takes this as an insult, but I find that unless you're a huge fan of Tony Williams and Elvin Jones and/or 60s Miles and Coltrane, you're probably just not going to understand the appeal of these kits. They are as iconic to fans of that music as a 59 Les Paul, 56 Strat, or 61 Jazz Bass is to fans to 60s/70s rock. And there are a lot of wealthy collectors (perhaps more in Japan and Europe) who want to pay big bucks for these kits.
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I was thinking the same thing...

is the price worth it to the average vintage buyer? Probably not given the "excellent" (sports card collecting term) condition that it is in, and people looking for Near Mint kits are more picky about the parameters of the set

is the price worth it to someone wanting to directly replicate their heroes set? Probably closer. '72 Precision basses are my "hero" bass because of Steve Harris. That year is not a specific year for P-basses to be gems, but I would pay more for a 72 P-bass b/c it represents something to me.

using the sports card analogy, in my general set collection, I am more picky abot shelling out bucks for sports cards in mint condition because of the "holding it's value" side of collecting

...if it is a Lynn Swann, Eric Davis, Wendel Clark or Borje Salming card. I will tend to buy cards of these guys in any condition - as they are my specific collections - because I am trying to get as many of these as I can into my horde. And I have probably payed a bit more for some of my cards of these players than I should have just to say that I have that specific card or item
 
Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX said:
is the price worth it to someone wanting to directly replicate their heroes set? Probably closer. '72 Precision basses are my "hero" bass because of Steve Harris. That year is not a specific year for P-basses to be gems, but I would pay more for a 72 P-bass b/c it represents something to me.
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You bring up some good points. I guess it all comes down to how bad does one want that particular kit and how much are they going to be driven to pay for it.
Your bass analogy reminded me of something, though, which why I created this post.
In 1985, I was rooming with a guy who was a guitar player. We were trying to start a band, but finding a bass player around here, at that time, was nearly impossible.
I talked him into switching to bass because it would be easier to find a guitar player (everyone wants to be Page or Clapton or Van Halen, no one wants to be Jones or Samwell-Smith or Anthony).
One day he came home with his "bass rig". He had stopped in a pawn shop and talked the proprietor into selling him a home stereo amp and the speakers for it and a 1967 Fender P-Bass with sunburst finish.
Total price...$150, out the door...:oops:...right?
He wasted the speakers within a couple of months and sold the whole rig for a song, then moved to Cali.
It wasn't until about a year or two later that I was talking to someone and mentioned that bass. They about freaked. Prices had skyrocketed into the thousands. Turns out that Sunburst finish for that year was one of the rarest finish options offered by Fender.
I ran into my friend tending bar in Seattle about 5 or 6 years later. He was thinking he was going to move back to San Fran, as he liked it there. I asked him if he remembered that bass and he did. Then I asked him if he was aware of the value and he got real sad, real quick and said "...yeah". Shaking his head.
 
serial 3995- year 1962 14x18
3390- 1962 14x14
3685- 1962 8x12
round head of course

thar another one..

jkrleshu6k860yxnlkn0.jpg
 
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Out of curiosity I searched reverb for “Gretsch bop” _sold_ listings, sorted high to low price. There are three big ticket ones, but then the sold price drops dramatically. 12.5, 10, 8.5, 5.IMG_2735.png Everything not in the screenshot was under 5K. Of course this doesn’t include sales anywhere outside of Reverb, and I imagine someone with 11K to spend might have gone to Maxwells in person. The top selling listing was at Maxwells, the next two were rare and coveted finishes.
 
bongoman said:
Out of curiosity I searched reverb for “Gretsch bop” _sold_ listings, sorted high to low price. There are three big ticket ones, but then the sold price drops dramatically. 12.5, 10, 8.5, 5.View attachment 147775 Everything not in the screenshot was under 5K. Of course this doesn’t include sales anywhere outside of Reverb, and I imagine someone with 11K to spend might have gone to Maxwells in person. The top selling listing was at Maxwells, the next two were rare and coveted finishes.
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I did the same but with dates, that is also interesting at it shows the fluctiation of the market in real time.
 
that 5K set is a modern

I'll put it this way.
If someone has $11,000 in spare change dollars to spend on a vintage four piece drum set
there's a good chance they didn't spend a lot of time with the drums

They spent a lot of time building a company empire (small e) laying asphalt, or building homes or something

Just a thought
of course the other possibility is yes someone made it big on drums/in music and wants them ; and most of those guys already have one
 
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jda said:
that 5K set is a modern

I'll put it this way.
If someone has $11,000 spare change dollars to spend on a vintage four piece drum set
there's a good chance they didn't spend a lot of time with the drums

They spent a lot of time building a company empire (small e) laying asphalt, or building homes or something

Just a thought
of course the other possibility is yes someone made it big on drums/in music and wants them ; and most of those guys already have one
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I agree—it was just interesting to me that all but three of the vintage Gretsch bops sold on Reverb went for less than 5K.
 
I have the near (20s instead of 18) same
$1167 in June 2023
another $180 in summer of 1975
another (since sold) 3rd found for $330 in winter of 1979
the value of a musical instrument is not measured in dollars
it's value is how it performs for you it's durability it's reliability
 
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Elvis said:
You bring up some good points. I guess it all comes down to how bad does one want that particular kit and how much are they going to be driven to pay for it.
Your bass analogy reminded me of something, though, which why I created this post.
In 1985, I was rooming with a guy who was a guitar player. We were trying to start a band, but finding a bass player around here, at that time, was nearly impossible.
I talked him into switching to bass because it would be easier to find a guitar player (everyone wants to be Page or Clapton or Van Halen, no one wants to be Jones or Samwell-Smith or Anthony).
One day he came home with his "bass rig". He had stopped in a pawn shop and talked the proprietor into selling him a home stereo amp and the speakers for it and a 1967 Fender P-Bass with sunburst finish.
Total price...$150, out the door...:oops:...right?
He wasted the speakers within a couple of months and sold the whole rig for a song, then moved to Cali.
It wasn't until about a year or two later that I was talking to someone and mentioned that bass. They about freaked. Prices had skyrocketed into the thousands. Turns out that Sunburst finish for that year was one of the rarest finish options offered by Fender.
I ran into my friend tending bar in Seattle about 5 or 6 years later. He was thinking he was going to move back to San Fran, as he liked it there. I asked him if he remembered that bass and he did. Then I asked him if he was aware of the value and he got real sad, real quick and said "...yeah". Shaking his head.
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oh man...i have TONS of stories like that from my travels in the sports card collecting world!!

and sort of interestingly, '72 p-basses are starting to go up in value too, which totally surprises me...and I got mine for a steal as well. $333 back in 84. I am the second owner. All original parts except the pickguard and strings. The original pickguard broke right where the jack is, so I took it off to make sure it didn't get worse...
 
bongoman said:
I agree—it was just interesting to me that all but three of the vintage Gretsch bops sold on Reverb went for less than 5K.
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And all the ones going for less than $5K were NOT "clean" RB 18" bop kits with drums born together. No extra holes.
No torn up or replaced wraps. No badly mismatched or missing parts. The real deal hasn't sold for $5K or less......probably since before 2008.
 
Tama CW said:
And all the ones going for less than $5K were NOT "clean" RB 18" bop kits with drums born together. No extra holes.
No torn up or replaced wraps. No badly mismatched or missing parts. The real deal hasn't sold for $5K or less......probably since before 2008.
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1) The kit under discussion is made up of orphans, the wrap on the rack tom is torn, and the inlays on the bass hoops don’t match.

2) I just looked again at that search of sold listings, and your claim about “not under 5k since 2008” does not match the facts. Go look for yourself.
 
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