While I recognize that the OP was not trying to troll I think its safe to say that it doesnt matter if you were a great drummer, a great band drummer, or just in a band that was popular, you will likely not be known.
OK - I understood that. TBH though, it takes me quite a few listenings some times to determine if the drummer is really inside the music or not. I'm like the guy who releases a blockbuster film, but says, "let's see where it is in three weeks". I remember the first time I heard the Steve Khan album "Casa Loco" with Steve Jordan on drums, I didn't really like it because Steve sounded outside. I was first exposed to Steve on the first Blues Brothers album in '78, so I like him in the pocket. When Casa Loco came out, it sounded way-out, but after lots of listening, he was definitely inside that music, way inside.Yeah Matt, its getting a little out there isn't it! : ) Why discuss music - It should be just played or heard......... but then who needs a forum, lol.
Ok, Leme try to make my premise as clear as I possibly can :
-2 kinds of ensemble playing ( in both cases, great drummers playing to music with other musicians )
-Some of these great drummers serve the music better than others ( both playing great, kickass drums no doubt )
- yet some get inside the music and some cant.
- the ones that do tend to be known for the music they make/made & the great drummers that they are
- the ones that don't seem to be known just as great drummers
Of course this is a generalisation and has many exceptions to the rule. Its just something I've wondered about, not a theory Im putting forth.
Perhaps its the musician's version of "those that cant cut it in the real world, teach". ( Not true, in my opinion, but in this case I'm not saying one is better than the other, therefore no value judgement )
Hope this helped?
For example, let's say you want to be extremely unbiased and hire Thomas. The track isn't gelling, and after a couple of hours, you know you have to start over. Is Thomas going to work for free? Is the studio going to rebate those 2 hours? How about the engineer? What about the other players??
Taking chances can be costly.
But let's say Thomas worked out after all. Then you've got a straight track that anyone could have done.
What I'm saying is, there are reasons some guys get called, and some guys don't. It's not the misperceptions that keep some of these technicians from working in the mainstream, it's their lack of reputation for doing straight playing. And for most technicians, that's going to be their legacy.
So why choose that username?*facepalm* Geez.... You know NOTHING about me but label me a Weckl-fan. Without words...
I'll tell you what. I do not(!) like Dave Weckls music at all. It doesn't speak to me, is not my music. The nickname was just a funny thing that came into my mind ehrn I had to log in. Seemed to be better than "drummer12334567890" to me. So, that aside, Have you read the link I provided? I guess not, otherwise you probably would not write such utter nonsense.
On topic: I do think that most of what we talk about has to do with people putting labels on musicians. Once a rock-musician, always a rock musician. Once a jazzer, always a jazzer. It's hard to get out of that ox for musicians and this certainly also applies to guys like Greb, Mayer et all. People think that they are good at one thing and book them for that one thing over and over again. Because they cannot think of anything else that might fit for those drummers.I am sure that Mayer could perform extremely well in a big band. Also for pop-productions. But maybe, he ain't interested in it. This is also possible.
The best way to escape from this "label"-drama is to do what Tony Williams did: Start your own band, jump from be-bop to fusion-rock, shatter the image that surrounded you. It's hard to achieve but it's a way to be more of a "one dimensional" drummer in the eyes of other musicians/producers/listeners.
Shouting louder doesn't make you less ignorant.Drummers music IS absolute tosh, FACT!
And on that note, I believe Virgil toured with Alanis Morisette or someone of that ilk a number of years ago. I can't remember who it was but all the same, it's certainly not unheard of for him to play pop music. Anyone remember Southern Sons?
Very true. All things being equal, playing-wise that is, a producer or artist or band will hire the 'nice guy'. As I've said for decades, in this business, nice guys finish first.Yet another factor though is the intangible "hang" that comes with being in a studio... some people are real easy to get along with and can roll with whatever the situation is. Other people turn into divas and make life miserable when things aren't working out, especially if they have perfectionist tendencies.
So why choose that username?
First of all, it is not a fact, but your opinion. And your opinion is not a fact. So please do some proper research before posting things that are simply not true. Listen e.g. to Manu Katchés jazzalbums. Or the albums made by Alan Evans with his projects Alan Evans Trio and/or Soulive. They are absolutely brilliant and were praised all over the world.Drummers music IS absolute tosh, FACT!
Not only there. Also an amateur band will have a hard time with a guy who is definitely not "a nice guy". They usually get replaced sooner or later.bermuda said:...a producer or artist or band will hire the 'nice guy'. As I've said for decades, in this business, nice guys finish first.
Did you even try to read and understand what I wrote?
First of all, it is not a fact, but your opinion. And your opinion is not a fact. So please do some proper research before posting things that are simply not true. Listen e.g. to Manu Katchés jazzalbums. Or the albums made by Alan Evans with his projects Alan Evans Trio and/or Soulive. They are absolutely brilliant and were praised all over the world.
Not only there. Also an amateur band will have a hard time with a guy who is definitely not "a nice guy". They usually get replaced sooner or later.
Oh yes he does!! Actually there was some kind of Buddy Rich tribute concert.I am sure that Mayer could perform extremely well in a big band. Also for pop-productions. But maybe, he ain't interested in it. This is also possible.
I've played with his father several times, and he's quite the accomplished percussionist.Beating a dead horse here.
Bruno Mars is a drummer too. For sure he has no clue about writing music and hooks
He isn't that kind of person at all as far as I know him, plus he's been hereTo the OP, on DW as soon as you disrespect fellow drummers, especially very accomplished ones, noone will buy into whatever point you try to make.