Great art comes from great pain

Larry

Larry

"Uncle Larry"
I love this quote. I think it's so true. Gomez Addams said it. Yea, that Gomez Addams.

I can think of 2 examples off the top of my head of artists who suffered great pain at the hands of their fathers. Brian Wilson and Michael Jackson. Both absolute musical geniuses.

Not to minimize anyone's pain, but I can't help to notice that there's something to the great pain/great art thing.

Like when they used to get Etta James pissed off right before a take so she would display that fire. (I heard Marshall Chess say that in an interview. "She could peel the paint off the walls")

But I can't ignore the really niggling question...is it worth one life having great pain if it benefits millions and advances the art?

Touchy subject for sure, please let's all try and be respectful.

The big question I have is if the great pain wasn't there, would the greatest art be? Can you have one without the other? We're talking great art, not unexceptional art.
 
It's not exactly a secret. Many of the great songwriters/musicians have come from a place of pain. Maybe it wasn't obvious pain, but it's there.

Sure, there are some exceptions. But I'd say the majority came from a place of pain.

The pain of growing up in post-WWII England supported much of the music we would call the 60's British Invasion.
John Lennon had a difficult childhood with his parents splitting up. Paul McCartney's father was absent for part of his childhood, and then his mother died when he was 14. Pete Townshend parents split up, and he was sent to live with his grandmother for a while, who was insane and didn't take of him well. Rodger Daltry's childhood was more semi-normal, but he wrote in his book about always feeling detached from his parents as they were so shell shocked from the War.

Much of Pink Floyd's music is spurred by Roger Water's father being killed in WWII.

Bono's mother died when he was a teenager.

The list goes on and on.

I don't think any of them would think their pain was worth it.
 
DaVinci was a genius. I don't know anything personal about him. I wonder if he too was a tortured soul.
 
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I believe it can too.
But the history of popular art, at least, over the past 100 years suggests it's much less common.
 
I can identify with that as I find it much easier to write music/lyrics when I’m fed up...you’re much more likely to retreat to the guitar/keys for solace...having said that, some great riffs can come whilst having fun/jamming. It’s true that a lot of the great artists seem to carry an element of sadness with them; you only have to look at the casualty list!! :unsure:
 
There is a great, great book called Written in My Soul by Bill Flanagan. It's a collection of interviews with some truly great songwriters—such as Bob Dylan, Chuck Berry, Joni Mitchell, Kris Kristofferson, Paul Simon, Van Morrison, Elvis Costello, Pete Townshend, Richard Thompson and many more—specifically about songwriting. Several of them admit in their interviews to deliberately screwing up their personal lives in order to facilitate their creative lives. [ED. NOTE: I am not condoning this action, merely pointing out what some very talented and successful artists have sometimes done.]

There's also a funny bit where Keith Richards is annoyed by an answer Pete Townshend had earlier given during his interview and picks up the microphone and directly addresses Townshend and firmly corrects what Richards believes to have been a mistake on Pete's part about where songs come from. (Keef believes it's the muse and that he's merely the conduit, Townshend believes it's the artist who sits down and puts in the work.)
 
larryace said:
I can think of 2 examples off the top of my head of artists who suffered great pain at the hands of their fathers. Brian Wilson and Michael Jackson. Both absolute musical geniuses.
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Jackson was a wreck. It’s so sad that his father did that to him. When I watched the HBO documentary which interviewed the men who were ”guests” at Neverland when they were 7 and 8 years old, all I could think was that Jackson’s dad created this ugliness.

Final answer: No, it’s not worth it. Take all of Jackson’s work and throw it in the trash. I’d rather have a normal guy doing normal things, than a guy who entertains me to avoid/endure/fight his pain.

Addendum: Everyone around Michael Jackson used him for their own personal gain. That’s one way the music industry works.
 
Very hard question ,I think to try and answer this i would look at 2 people one who has given great art from great pain and the other who has given great art without great pain , and study the the two people, and come to a conclusion.
 
cbphoto said:
Jackson was a wreck. It’s so sad that his father did that to him. When I watched the HBO documentary which interviewed the men who were ”guests” at Neverland when they were 7 and 8 years old, all I could think was that Jackson’s dad created this ugliness.

Final answer: No, it’s not worth it. Take all of Jackson’s work and throw it in the trash. I’d rather have a normal guy doing normal things, than a guy who entertains me to avoid/endure/fight his pain.

Addendum: Everyone around Michael Jackson used him for their own personal gain. That’s one way the music industry works.
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Don't forget Janet and LaToya, he messed them up as well. Children don't belong in the spotlight, look at how many have serious problems later in life.
cbphoto said:
Everyone around Michael Jackson used him for their own personal gain.
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The same thing was done to Mike Tyson. As a young teen his trainers would hypnotize him and tell him he was a killer and nothing else. Brainwashed the man and turned him into a monster.

No amount of money is worth any of it.
I will say, when Dave was drinking, doing drugs, and barely holding on mentally, Megadeth made some of their best music. As a fan though, I am glad he's in a better place.
 
Attempting to attribute motive to any work of art is to commit the intentional fallacy, which holds that we can never know an artist's frame of mind at the time of creation, even if he or she seemingly reveals it to us. Biographical criticism is an impoverished form of analysis. Focusing on artists detracts from art itself. The product is what matters. The artist's inspiration or intent is a triviality, one we can never ascertain, no matter what we might be told.

What we think flows from pain may very well be the offspring of vanity. Again, the impetus is extraneous, chiefly because it can't be confirmed. Explicating art is a considerably more manageable process than dissecting artists.
 
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Lots of great authors and artist were train wrecks in personal life- seems their art was their escape. Hardship can either make or break people but having it to easy and spoiling I think tends to be more detrimental killing ambition, effort and appreciation of benefits from effort and sacrifice. I think my Dad being an upper class physician in a small town worried his kids wouldn’t have a good work ethics so always pushed us to take all kind of jobs and whatnot. Michael Jackson’s Dad pushed his kids because a lack of privilege most likely. I think Michael being a child star doomed him as so many others. But there lots of studies of creativity and genius and psychological issues I believe. So the chicken or the egg LOL
 
History shows us art and pain are synonymous. How many great artists have drug problems, end up in mental hospitals, spend their fortunes in search of happiness, or end up killing themselves? A huge portion.

Art is where we are in control. No one else can tell us what to do when we are creating art. It only makes sense (to me) that tortured souls dissolve themselves in an activity where we are the boss. It's our way of coping. Works perfectly in my life. When I was playing drums, I wasnt being yelled at or beaten by my father. Throw divorce in there and it really screws up a child's mind. Ever been a recipient of a "bad day at work" ass whooping? I have. Art becomes an outlet, a thing to do that is safe, something no one can take away from you. It's a lifeline to happiness and a temporary escape from the negative, no matter how small of an escape it might be.
 
My daughter's fiancé is a struggling artist but recently found a great revue of one of his shows-and his clever take on folk art. He has had success and some notoriety for animal art (horses and birds I think) and painting over photographs in collaboration with a photographer-but his real passion comes from his life in NC mountains and folk art. He has a very clever take on it hitting buttons that few people even notice. Well this reviewer did. I think there is some brilliance in it's simplicity and plays on art history and real history. He has a clever way to push buttons-I kept telling him he just hasn't had the right venue that someone will "see" it. I think his play on things is so timely. https://www.ajc.com/life/arts-cultu...-history-painting/TUOQRRDSYNEPZMLSI54MP2BOAY/
 
Did anyone see the HBO documentary on Tiger Woods? His dad was a force! Green Beret, two Vietnam tours as the ordinance “trigger man”, blowing up Vietcong encampments. Then goes on to raise and train (he was never a pro golfer) his son Tiger. The collapse of Tiger Woods can be linked to his father’s off-course behavior. At least, from what I reckon, Tiger is getting mentally/emotionally healthy and trying to be a good father.
 
cbphoto said:
Did anyone see the HBO documentary on Tiger Woods? His dad was a force! Green Beret, two Vietnam tours as the ordinance “trigger man”, blowing up Vietcong encampments. Then goes on to raise and train (he was never a pro golfer) his son Tiger. The collapse of Tiger Woods can be linked to his father’s off-course behavior. At least, from what I reckon, Tiger is getting mentally/emotionally healthy and trying to be a good father.
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Earl also told Eldrick at a very young age he could only be one of two things, a special operator or a golfer. Earl and Joe Jackson are cut from the same cloth. Terrible fathers who horribly damaged their children all in the name of fame and fortune.
 
We rarely connect with other's strengths, but we almost always connect and identify with other's pain and brokenness.
Life is difficult and painful for everyone but to varying degrees. Those who are gifted enough to encapsulate that pain
into a thing of beauty and are vulnerable to share it are likely going to make deeper connections with their audience.
 
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