Ghost notes - Easier with trad grip?
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Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX
Local Boob
same.....
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IncipimusIterum
Guest
Would you say that your left hand is on par with your right when playing traditional grip?
beatdat
Senior Member
I think it depends on how "matched" your matched grip actually is.
Before I started my left hand makeover, my left hand ghost strokes were barely "ok". During this process, I've found myself switching to trad on occasion in order to "get by", insofar as it does sound and feel better than matched at this point in time, but I'm sure that I'll revert back to matched grip once my left hand catches up.
Before I started my left hand makeover, my left hand ghost strokes were barely "ok". During this process, I've found myself switching to trad on occasion in order to "get by", insofar as it does sound and feel better than matched at this point in time, but I'm sure that I'll revert back to matched grip once my left hand catches up.
Right now I find it easier with traditional, probably because that's been my main grip for many years. But I've also been wondering if that's going to change as I work on my matched grip more. I will say with traditional grip it seems easier to feel each individual stroke (for me).
Paul Blood
Junior Member
Both grips are of course possible to do ghost notes. David Garibaldi is a master of ghost notes and he’s matched while Keith Carlock is also amazing with ghost notes and he’s traditional.
GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
So no one seems to think one grip would/could/might have an advantage for ghost notes? If adept at both and you feel no difference I can see that as a valid argument there is no difference , but I don’t think that rules out one might have “some advantage” just cause I’m feeling froggy for arguments sake ROFL.
I started traditional but have chosen matched for last twenty years. I always felt playing drags (like jazz comping) seems so natural with traditional grip than with matched for me. So playing matched only has been a challenge getting the feel- it has a different flavor and matched sounds stiff and less natural to my ear dagnabit.
I started traditional but have chosen matched for last twenty years. I always felt playing drags (like jazz comping) seems so natural with traditional grip than with matched for me. So playing matched only has been a challenge getting the feel- it has a different flavor and matched sounds stiff and less natural to my ear dagnabit.
Winston_Wolf
Platinum Member
I think it comes down to whichever grip you feel the most comfortable with you are able to do the most with.
I've played matched grip 99% of my time playing, and I can play ghost notes just fine. I've only ever goofed around with traditional grip, and my abilities with it are therefore pretty limited.
I've played matched grip 99% of my time playing, and I can play ghost notes just fine. I've only ever goofed around with traditional grip, and my abilities with it are therefore pretty limited.
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
It's going to be easier whatever your favoured grip is.
I've been a matched gripper since about 1975 and have no issues with my ghost notes.
I've been a matched gripper since about 1975 and have no issues with my ghost notes.
Chris Whitten
Platinum Member
Yes.... no issue.
fobz
Active Member
No. Why would there be a difference? Ghost notes require precise control of whichever grip you happen to use 
As for the weak hand 'catching up'. Is that ever really possible? Whenever my weak hand improves, it allows my dominant hand to improve also (which has been held back by the limitations of my weak hand). Matched grip is an attempt to gain the same level of control in your weak hand, but they will never be equal, it's something to strive for in order to get both as good as they can be. Trad grip approaches the same problem in a different way, by accepting that the hands are different and learning a completely different technique/action. Neither is better, just two different ways of approaching the same issue.
As for the weak hand 'catching up'. Is that ever really possible? Whenever my weak hand improves, it allows my dominant hand to improve also (which has been held back by the limitations of my weak hand). Matched grip is an attempt to gain the same level of control in your weak hand, but they will never be equal, it's something to strive for in order to get both as good as they can be. Trad grip approaches the same problem in a different way, by accepting that the hands are different and learning a completely different technique/action. Neither is better, just two different ways of approaching the same issue.
I'm certainly known to take the thread off course, but the original poster asked about being quietier. Not whether they're the same. So I'll answer that.
I won't go into a long discourse, but you are aware that for traditional, the hand is more under the stick than over it, so there's less weight from the top of the hand. This is a very simplistic answer to why they may sound quieter.
And of course, the other answer is practice. I think that's always the answer. Speaking for myself, I use a lot of James Brown as a reference for ghost notes, even when practicing at home, Mother Popcorn, give it up turn it loose. As far as I can tell, there's very few guys who can play those grooves with that feel using matched grip. There's a few, but not many.
I won't go into a long discourse, but you are aware that for traditional, the hand is more under the stick than over it, so there's less weight from the top of the hand. This is a very simplistic answer to why they may sound quieter.
And of course, the other answer is practice. I think that's always the answer. Speaking for myself, I use a lot of James Brown as a reference for ghost notes, even when practicing at home, Mother Popcorn, give it up turn it loose. As far as I can tell, there's very few guys who can play those grooves with that feel using matched grip. There's a few, but not many.
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GetAgrippa
Diamond Member
Well my cheeky comment was really more about a beginner, because though I agree there would likely be no difference between a seasoned drummer there would highly likely be for a novice. Mainly because the difference between coordination of dominant vs non-dominant hands it would be easier matched for a novice. Your non-dominant hand is generally less adept so adding the traditional grip feels odd compared to match-though reality is traditional grip does have many biomechanical advantages I'm seeing. Another thread got me going on anatomy and motions during drumming, so I've been refreshing my human anatomy-dang I've brain dumped a lot (one forearm muscle is considered vestigial because 10-15% folks don't have it and that's got me wondering) and reading biomechanics studies. There are some directly drumming papers but most I've been reading are not directly related to drumming but just actions/motions and forces generated depending on motion and starting positions. I haven't gotten to velocity of motions yet-so that part is lacking in my reading but I'm just starting. There are differences between males and females also. Lots of papers using this apparatus for arm, forearm, wrist, finger actions in living people and many use cadaver arms in them-which the later I find a bit freaky. We generate more force flexing wrist than extending (forearm muscles -although extensor muscles generate most force during eccentric contractions as they lengthen so it's not like doing nothing) and we generate more force supinating our forearms (our arm biceps generate a lot of that force in traditional). The hand starting position and angle of arm has a big effect on forces generated during supination/pronation and flexion/extension and velocity of action.
Well anyways I want to break down a single event of one hand in matched grip and a double stroke-to get all arm, forearm, wrist, and finger muscles/actions/limitations during the single event. I'm going to use a Vic Firth video to break down his actions. I'll do traditional next. Some of our actions should anatomically be limited but they don't appear to do so. Everyone uses the lever model and our body uses different classes of levers for mechanical advantage in moving a load, but we really don't move a large load with a stick it's mainly forces and contractile velocity (which is dependent on position of appendage partly because length-tension relationship of all muscles, passive matrix mechanics, but also advantage from mechanical leverage. I'm not saying simple levers aren't applicable but they aren't simple but actually dynamic non-linear levers, and there are lots of angular momentum changes and changes in mechanical advantage from position that we leverage to conserve our efforts and get extra strokes. I maybe reinventing the wheel but it will be a fun exercise to keep me deteriorating into dementia. My decline in memory frightens me of late.
Well anyways I want to break down a single event of one hand in matched grip and a double stroke-to get all arm, forearm, wrist, and finger muscles/actions/limitations during the single event. I'm going to use a Vic Firth video to break down his actions. I'll do traditional next. Some of our actions should anatomically be limited but they don't appear to do so. Everyone uses the lever model and our body uses different classes of levers for mechanical advantage in moving a load, but we really don't move a large load with a stick it's mainly forces and contractile velocity (which is dependent on position of appendage partly because length-tension relationship of all muscles, passive matrix mechanics, but also advantage from mechanical leverage. I'm not saying simple levers aren't applicable but they aren't simple but actually dynamic non-linear levers, and there are lots of angular momentum changes and changes in mechanical advantage from position that we leverage to conserve our efforts and get extra strokes. I maybe reinventing the wheel but it will be a fun exercise to keep me deteriorating into dementia. My decline in memory frightens me of late.
That's what I was thinking. I'm a matched grip player, but I've noodled around with trad a bit. Somehow, it feels like trad grip lends itself to quieter playing. It would be a huge project to switch grips, though. Maybe I just need to work on French grip for my left hand. I'm so used to bashing out back beats that playing ghost notes and quick little skips is a real challenge. Everything's too loud.
I'm not so loud that other people complain, but I'm loud enough that I have difficulty hearing the rest of the band if my playing gets busy at all, and that's a problem.
I get it. I'm sure a lot of people are going to quote your post tell you what you "should " be doing. But for me discussions about hand technique using words are kind of pointless. Even zoom or FaceTime lessons aren't always helpful. But that's me. I'm super super old-school.
For example, to me someone like Dennis Chambers plays ghost notes that are very, very precise, almost to the point that they aren't ghosted, but very light notes with intent. And then you have a drummer like Bill, Stewart, who plays match grip jazz and turns his hand super far over in a French grip style to try to replicate that traditional grip feel.
It's all out there, just look around. And good luck.