General venue rant

Bo Eder

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
The picture attached is a shot of the Devo band playing in a small venue this past Friday down in San Diego at a place on the beach. We don’t mind playing smaller venues (we’ve done a couple of 3,000 seat halls so far), but my rant is with these people who open these live music venues:

Why is it that there’s never a load-in area? I’d be happy with a back door load-in - but this place didn’t even have parking available. Everything came in the front door while I blocked traffic, then I got lucky finding a parking spot out front nearby. But we weren’t the only band so I know people had to park somewhere and walk back to the venue.

The load out happened the same way - but now the venue was packed with audience who were nice enough to move out of the way while we moved drumset pieces out the front door along with the PA system.

I do ok since I carry a cart to roll stuff around, but bands have been doing this for a while now, you’d think if I had the bright idea to open a live music venue, I’d figure out some way to allow the bands at least an easy load-in and load-out.

I’m sure this sounds like first-world whining, but really, if you want to showcase big bands with big shows requiring lots of gear, you’d think beyond just having a front door for everything. Weird.

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Bo Eder said:
my rant is with these people who open these live music venues:

Why is it that there’s never a load-in area?
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Not everyone who converts an existing space to a venue understands all of the logistics involved. That is, they're not musicians, and they didn't consult any when taking over the space. "So, what do you expect when coming to a venue to perform? What do you expect once inside, and before and after the show?" would be a good place to start.

If someone was building a venue from the ground up, the contractor would be able to make the necessary recommendations for loading, power, perhaps acoustics, etc.

It would be like someone walking into a tour manager's position without any prior experience. Even with great managerial skills, if you don't understand the logistics of a touring organization, unions, the limitations of professional drivers, etc, it's a train wreck.
 
I've been through this many times. You'd think venue owners would figure stuff like this out, but no, they often don't, usually because they aren't musicians.

Several years ago, we were playing at Nardi's, a very popular club on Long Beach Island at the Jersey Shore. We had to bring gear through the front door. It wasn't a problem at the start of the night, because the place wasn't crowded, but when we tried to load out, we had to fight our way through dozens of drunk twenty-somethings to get through the door. Of course, I had to make multiple trips, while the house DJ was blasting hip-hop and techno dance music at ear-splitting volume. I was growing more and more angry by the third trip. I had to say, "Excuse me" about four times to one sloppy drunk woman. I almost physically pushed her out of the way, but didn't, figuring a stunt like that would get the band fired.

Hey Bo, who is the cute blonde on the left? LOL! ;) 🤪
 
wait...club owners are cheap? And don't think about logistics?
 
bermuda said:
Not everyone who converts an existing space to a venue understands all of the logistics involved. That is, they're not musicians, and they didn't consult any when taking over the space. "So, what do you expect when coming to a venue to perform? What do you expect once inside, and before and after the show?" would be a good place to start.

If someone was building a venue from the ground up, the contractor would be able to make the necessary recommendations for loading, power, perhaps acoustics, etc.

It would be like someone walking into a tour manager's position without any prior experience. Even with great managerial skills, if you don't understand the logistics of a touring organization, unions, the limitations of professional drivers, etc, it's a train wreck.
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Then I’ll surmise at my level of appropriate venues, there are ALOT of train wrecks out there to play at. Part of it felt un-safe too - I thought it was safety law to have more than ONE entry/exit. Nobody remembers what happens when you scream fire in a crowded movie theater?
 
Bo Eder said:
Then I’ll surmise at my level of appropriate venues, there are ALOT of train wrecks out there to play at. Part of it felt un-safe too - I thought it was safety law to have more than ONE entry/exit. Nobody remembers what happens when you scream fire in a crowded movie theater?
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well, I played CBGB's once...and very few places were as much of a logistical cf as that place

we used to play a place in Pittsburgh that only had one, 2 story flight of stairs to load in and out of, AND that is how people got into the club

and then there was every punk house I ever played in
 
Bo Eder said:
Then I’ll surmise at my level of appropriate venues, there are ALOT of train wrecks out there to play at.
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Not every venue started off as a music venue.. Sometimes a loading zone in the rear just doesn't exist. Wider doors, wider halls, ramps are expensive to retrofit and owners either don't know or aren't being told that they're necessary. Or they simply won't spend the money.

Hard to imagine any business without a rear/2nd exit.
 
bermuda said:
Not every venue started off as a music venue.. Sometimes a loading zone in the rear just doesn't exist. Wider doors, wider halls, ramps are expensive to retrofit and owners either don't know or aren't being told that they're necessary. Or they simply won't spend the money.

Hard to imagine any business without a rear/2nd exit.
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There may have been one but maybe it was a secret at this place
 
A difficult load in setup can discourage you from ever going back to a venue.. distance is no biggie if its an easy park and rolling access to elevators etc. But the ones that get me are long narrow stairways to get to the stage… or hallways and lots of doors. Played a club downtown recently.. great venue and stage.. but loadin Sheesh.. underground parking to a loading dock, up the stairs thru a door, hallway to next door, to next door, thru kitchen, down a hall thru 3 more doors and up the stairs to the stage.. at the end of the night I was like to heck with that.. i’ll back my car onto the sidewalk, park by the front door and whisk my gear out the main doors.. Perfect plan.. until I went to back my car in.. and a group of about 7 cops showed up and decided to have a group chit chat in front of the door! As driving right up to them on the sidewalk was probably illegal and a no go.. i had to park on the street and wheel my gear an extra 50 feet.. not my worst loadin but sometimes you just can’t win!
 
Lots of old places were like that back in the day. The Keystone Berk had many great stories along those lines


The Second Set New Riders
Keystone Berkeley, Berkeley, CA February 2, 1974

“According to the tape notes, Garcia joins the band for the entire second set, but I don't hear him until mid-set. I also have to add that the audience is pretty prominent between songs, and I don't hear the usual shouts of "Jerry!" and "Casey Jones" for the first few numbers.

I also wonder how he got on the stage without being noticed, since the Keystone had no 'backstage' as such, and performers simply had to walk through the audience. It's a striking image in my mind to think of dancing, stoned New Riders fans grooving between the tables on the Keystone floor, while Garcia casually maneuvers between them on his way to the stage. “

“Between March 8, 1972 and March 22, 1984, Garcia had played an incredible 206 times at the Keystone Berkeley, in a variety of bands. I do not believe there is a single venue that the Grateful Dead played more than 50 times, and Garcia quadrupled that at Keystone Berkeley.

However, in retrospect, the remarkable thing about the Keystone Berkeley was that there was no backstage per se, as the stage was on the opposite end from the bar and the back room. Thus the band--including Garcia--had to walk through the audience to get to the stage.

It was actually on the East Coast where the Dead became really huge, and Garcia became larger than life. Nonetheless it was still astonishing that the Dead could headline Madison Square Garden, and a few weeks later Garcia would play this bar where he had to walk through the crowd to get to the stage.

In the 1980s, more and more people either visited the West Coast or outright moved to the Bay Area to be nearer the Dead. Seeing Garcia at the Keystone was a must-do.

As the eager eyed Deadhead peered backstage, looking for Jerry amdist the hubbub, my friend would wait and say "hey, look behind you" and there was Jerry walking right past them (and Steve Parish and Keystone security staff, too, of course). Every time the astonished visitor would say "he couldn't do this in New York [or wherever]," and indeed he couldn't. Right up until the end, for all it's hassles, rowdiness and late hours, Jerry Garcia at Keystone Berkeley was a singular event that had no parallels in the Dead world.”
 
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Imagine this. Asked to headline (well we were on last....:unsure:) small festival in Brighton. Food, booze & parking voucher provided. Turn up, ring this number & load in through a house. Down to back yard & out into communal garden/park. 100 yards at least following the music (must get a cart o_O). Load out was similar. Saves on gym membership :ROFLMAO:
 
Excellent observations!

Most venues I've played at require you to load through the front door. Bars are notorious for this. But even places that are designed from the ground up as an entertainment venue lack a decent rear load out area.

The worst one I've ever seen was a high school that looks like it was built in the 70's. The stage was excellent, about 4 feet off the ground and had all the room you could ever want. The load out area, however; was ridiculous.

To enter the building, you had to drive your car about 50 feet across the lawn up to a narrow set of concrete stairs. To enter the door, you had to turn 90 degrees into a narrow hallway where you were greeted with yet another door and another 90 degree turn. There was a second load out option, complete with a nice ramp but it (once again) had two narrow doors and would require you to completely circle the inside of the school to get to the parking area. We chose option 1; the stairs.
 
I learnt many years ago that when there's money to be made by a venue that common sense goes flying out the window very early doors.

My personal favourite was Nottingham Town Hall, that bad we've refused to ever go near the place again here's why:
1) It's in the middle of a pedestrianised city centre surrounded by bus lanes and cameras that will fine you if you go in them so you have to wait until after 5pm to avoid the camera and then hope there's not any Old Bill not on operation easy nick.
2) Nowhere to park to unload safely, you have the general public wondering past whilst you put everything in the foyer.
3) You have to pay to park on a multistory carpark that's a 5 minute walk away and hope all your gear is still in the foyer. (double drop load in too!)
4) You're playing on the first floor and they only have a tiny service lift. The hello Cleveland joke gets old real fast!
5) Repeat process for load out, only now Nottingham City is full of footpads, vagabonds and drunkards staggering past your car.

That's been the worst experience but City centres are all the same in England and they've even bought in a congestion charge to "improve air quality" in some but that runs midnight to midnight so you get hit with a double whammy.

We've said no more to city centre gigs, it's not worth the extra hassle plus venues won't pay to cover the extra hassle.
 
I've got one for you...

Some people I know decide to quit the corporate world after making a ton of money and build one of those high-end wedding venues. The grass looks like a golf course and everything is timber frame and open. Full commercial kitchen. Big dance floor, perfect lighting, etc. Our band gets booked to play there. Where is there room for the band to play? On a cement sidewalk near the bathrooms. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. There's no room for even a DJ.
 
Love that you're using a Vox kit live... looks awesome!

I would think not having a second exit is a code violation, certainly.

And I expect many folks that decide to open clubs find a location that is cheap enough for them to afford first, everything else comes after. As others have pointed out, if they aren't musicians or have managed a club with musicians before, its not anything they would think of before deciding on the venue location. It's always a challenge to load in thru the front....
 
PorkPieGuy said:
I've got one for you...

Some people I know decide to quit the corporate world after making a ton of money and build one of those high-end wedding venues. The grass looks like a golf course and everything is timber frame and open. Full commercial kitchen. Big dance floor, perfect lighting, etc. Our band gets booked to play there. Where is there room for the band to play? On a cement sidewalk near the bathrooms. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. There's no room for even a DJ.
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Welcome to my world! There's no need for language like DJ lol! They're an entirely different rant!

........don't forget it's your fault when it sounds like crap at these places too!
 
Bo Eder said:
I’m sure this sounds like first-world whining, but really, if you want to showcase big bands with big shows requiring lots of gear, you’d think beyond just having a front door for everything. Weird.
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It is actually, although in most of the first world is like that, because if you were the owner of an area such as a parking place (of any size), it would be more profitable for you to rent that part (for anything) or sell it to make a building or whatever, than all the profit you would make having a club, without counting the work and the risk, thinking of always having a profit. In any city or even small town in Europe it is like this (I also lived in Southamerica, and there is the same). Does the "Village Vanguand" has a parking place, how about the "Blue Note", etc, etc....? (They are all in Manhattan, New York, USA)
 
My 5-piece band had a gig on Savary Island years ago, and the marathon nightmare went like this; Load out from basement rehearsal space,
(all instruments, amps, PA, board, monitors and all other necessities) into van, 15 mile drive to Lund dock. Unload at top(LOW tide!) wait for
water taxi while bringing gear down to lower dock. Boat arrives, load boat and 15-20 minute boat ride to Savary. Unload on lower dock.
Bring gear to UPPER dock while waiting for truck. Truck arrives, load truck. 15 minute ride to outdoor venue. Unload truck at venue and set up stage. Play a single, one hour set( in 90F heat! we were set up on the front porch of a house in a line, right to left, with me at extreme stage, or porch left. The sole skylight in the porch roof allowed the sun to cook the top of my head if I sat with proper posture!) Crowd showed minimal interest, we tore down exhausted and dejected, repeated the whole process in reverse, and took home $60 each for our efforts!o_O
 
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Seems to me like we've identified a niche industry: venue live music inspector. "You don't have a back entrance and dedicated musician parking. I'm afraid I'm going to have to cite you. You've got 90 days to correct this. I'll be back."
 
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