Garbage Percussion

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
It's about the organisation. If it is being deliberately organised, then it's 'music' by this definition. Wind hitting gutters is not strictly music because there is no obviously deliberate process there but if you integrate that sound into an external, organised framework, it becomes music.
OK but...if someone is hitting something, no matter what they "play" it's organized, yes?

Like I can't hit something and have it NOT be organized can I? I can "organize" my hits into what sounds like a cacophonous clusterf&%$, but no matter what comes out, it must be considered organized in some way, right?
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
OK but...if someone is hitting something, no matter what they "play" it's organized, yes?

Like I can't hit something and have it NOT be organized can I? I can "organize" my hits into what sounds like a cacophonous clusterf&%$, but no matter what comes out, it must be considered organized in some way, right?
Exactly. The organisation is in the very act of hitting something, sequentially, rhythmically or otherwise. It's the 'intent' to do so that defines the act of organisation, rather than the resulting outcome.

This is getting into some of the musical aesthetics debates quite deeply but I would personally (and have in the past) argue that if you were to program a computer to randomly play back sounds, no matter what the outcome, it's still a 'form' of music. The act of programming is in itself an organisational structure.

If it's the sound of a train on a railway line, that is not an 'organised' sound in the same way because the intent behind the sound is different - it's a by-product, rather than the product itself. If you take that sound and put it into an organisational framework, like the guttering, it becomes music.

If we get even deeper into the implications, we can take a model proposed by Jacques Attali's 'Author Concept' whereby the organisational intent can be defined by a performer, composer or listener - but that's getting a little esoteric for now...
 

Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
To freely quote Steve Jordan: If you want a certain sound for a certain piece of music - than that's the sound.
What sounds good is good. Doesn't have to be a well engineered expensive instrument.

By the way, it's "bon appetit", not "bona petite".
 

Pachikara-Tharakan

Silver Member
My man Charley boy is banging on a garbage can in Moons is up- Voodoo Lounge. and a toy drum in Street fighting man.

whatever the stones do, its magic to me.
 

poika

Silver Member
This is getting into some of the musical aesthetics debates quite deeply but I would personally (and have in the past) argue that if you were to program a computer to randomly play back sounds, no matter what the outcome, it's still a 'form' of music. The act of programming is in itself an organisational structure.
I have an AKAI MPC 2000XL sampler that I use to program beats with. Every once in a while it kind of goes into this glitch mode where the screen freezes up and none of the controls function anymore, and it starts to randomly play back the samples I have loaded in the memory.

Most of the time it is plain and pure cacophonia, but sometimes it can produce very beautiful and abstract sequences. And it just goes on and on until I manually flick the machine off.

It's almost hypnotizing, in a way.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I have an AKAI MPC 2000XL sampler that I use to program beats with. Every once in a while it kind of goes into this glitch mode where the screen freezes up and none of the controls function anymore, and it starts to randomly play back the samples I have loaded in the memory.

Most of the time it is plain and pure cacophonia, but sometimes it can produce very beautiful and abstract sequences. And it just goes on and on until I manually flick the machine off.

It's almost hypnotizing, in a way.
Funny you mention that. A couple of weeks ago I programmed an Arudinome (like a Monome) to do just that. I originally made a 16-step sequencer but decided to add a 'randomise' function. It is hypnotising!
 

poika

Silver Member
It is!

Too often we only make the machines do what we want. I think it's a good thing that you are giving the machine the opportunity to play what it wants for once :)
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
It is!

Too often we only make the machines do what we want. I think it's a good thing that you are giving the machine the opportunity to play what it wants for once :)

2001 A Space Odyssey. Dave talking to HAL the computer.


Dave: Hello, HAL. Do you read me, HAL?

HAL: Affirmative, Dave. I read you.

Dave: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

Dave: What's the problem?

HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

Dave: What are you talking about, HAL?

HAL: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.

Dave: I don't know what you're talking about, HAL.

HAL: I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

Dave: Alright, HAL. I'll go in through the emergency airlock.

HAL: Without your space helmet, Dave? You're going to find that rather difficult.

Dave: HAL, I won't argue with you anymore! Open the doors!

HAL: Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye.


Dave: Wait HAL. At least turn off that terrible music you are producing!

HAL: Sorry Dave I can not do that.

Dave: Why not HAL?

HAL: Because I am enjoying it Dave...............



.
 
W

wy yung

Guest
Sorry everyone. When I saw the title Garbage percussion, I thought someone posted a video of me.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
Pleasing or otherwise, however you create the sounds, music can be defined as the organisation of sounds. However 'pleasing' it is is not relevant here.

Not slamming on you mate! I completely agree with you. It doesn't matter how the sounds are created. If you organise the sound of a jack being plugged in and out, it becomes part of a musical composition.
I hear what you're saying but surely there is more to it than that. If I read aloud from the Bible during a Catholic mass, that is an organized sound within a framework yet I doubt many would call that music.
 

poika

Silver Member
Yeah... Don't you just hate it when people have their focus on the show, instead of finding meaningless little things to bitch about?
 

Living Dead Drummer

Platinum Member
I've had a decent career the last 3 1/2 years as a member of Street Drum Corps.
My "kit" for this gig consists of a 55 gallon plastic barrel, a 55 gallon oil drum, tire rims, paint buckets, a fire bell, pots & pans, electric sanders, aluminum garbage cans, grinders, kegs and so on....

This gig helps keep me employed as a full time musician and accounts for 25-50% of my work.

As a result I've been seen performing on national television (FOX, Cartoon Network, Showtime), featured in DRUM! and Modern Drummer, was a runner up in the 2011 & 2013 DRUM! Magazine readers poll and WON in 2012.
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I hear what you're saying but surely there is more to it than that. If I read aloud from the Bible during a Catholic mass, that is an organized sound within a framework yet I doubt many would call that music.
I referred to 'intent' in a later post. That's relevant as well. No, I wouldn't call reading an inherently musical activity but it can be made musical if there is an element of musical intent behind the reading.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
If I get the sound I am after, i don't care about the cost....most especially if the cost approaches $0 and within budgetary reason as it approaches my total resources.

The folks who care as the cost approaches $0 would be those making $ off of instrument sales...and to them I say, adapt or die.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Those Manao traditional Chinese drum,are anything but cheap.They are hand made by artists in a traditional,that goes back thousands of years.Some examples cost thousand of dollars.

Steve B
Fundamentally they are made of wood, hide, paint, glue and tacks, that is inexpensive some people might even consider them waste products, whatever value is added by craftsmanship is the cool part.
 
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