Force 3007: Removing Lacquer

EcnivZeud

Member
Hi, I posted this message on the Sonor Forum but there seems to be more audience here... so here it is again.

So, since a few month I was looking for a maple drumkit in Bop sizes, preferently from Sonor.
As my budget was rather tight, I was looking in the 3005/3007 series, but it seemed very hard to find as a kit. Or I had to order from the catalogue in the new Force Select series, but I found it to be a bit expensive and didn't want to wait months to receive my kit.
I finally found spare 3007 elements (in my dream sizes: 18"x16"BD, 12"x8"TT and 14"x14"FT) from a shop who made me a really good deal on them, since the new Force Select Series arrived so I ordered them directly.
BUT, the issue is: the floor tom is in the Brown Burst finnish (which I like) while the bass drum and the small tom are in the Midnight Blue Burst (which I hate)...anyway I was having a bargain on them so I jumped on it.
Now I want to have an homogeneous kit so I was thinking to sand the shells in order to have a rough maple shell to start with, and apply another finnish on it. If the maple shell look nice, I would go in favor of a natural amber satin finnish; if not a veneer or a Delmar wrap.
So my question is: as I imagine the lacquer is pretty hard, I would like to remove the lacquer before I sand the shells (with a 100 grade sand paper or finer coarse), but which product should I use? What is this solid lacquer made of on these 3007s? Polyester lacquer or nitrocellulose lacquer, or another weird chemical stuff ?
Thanks for your help!!!!
 
D

Doctor Dirt

Guest
Buy the newer tape on wrap then when you get sick of the color or just want a change you can without taking the chance of ruining the veneer on a drum. If your not an experienced wood worker your going to mess these drums up. Wrap them. Doc
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Hi, I posted this message on the Sonor Forum but there seems to be more audience here... so here it is again.

So, since a few month I was looking for a maple drumkit in Bop sizes, preferently from Sonor.
As my budget was rather tight, I was looking in the 3005/3007 series, but it seemed very hard to find as a kit. Or I had to order from the catalogue in the new Force Select series, but I found it to be a bit expensive and didn't want to wait months to receive my kit.
I finally found spare 3007 elements (in my dream sizes: 18"x16"BD, 12"x8"TT and 14"x14"FT) from a shop who made me a really good deal on them, since the new Force Select Series arrived so I ordered them directly.
BUT, the issue is: the floor tom is in the Brown Burst finnish (which I like) while the bass drum and the small tom are in the Midnight Blue Burst (which I hate)...anyway I was having a bargain on them so I jumped on it.
Now I want to have an homogeneous kit so I was thinking to sand the shells in order to have a rough maple shell to start with, and apply another finnish on it. If the maple shell look nice, I would go in favor of a natural amber satin finnish; if not a veneer or a Delmar wrap.
So my question is: as I imagine the lacquer is pretty hard, I would like to remove the lacquer before I sand the shells (with a 100 grade sand paper or finer coarse), but which product should I use? What is this solid lacquer made of on these 3007s? Polyester lacquer or nitrocellulose lacquer, or another weird chemical stuff ?
Thanks for your help!!!!
Unless you have experience with stripping,and staining wood,you will ruin those drums.Once you get the lacquer off,you will have to sand,or chemically bleach the drums to first get the stain out.You can't just apply stain to a shell,and expect it to become the color of the new stain.It must be stripped to bare wood.

Don't do it.Buy some wrap,or bring the drums to a shop in Germany,and have them rewrap the drums.

Steve B
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
I "beg to differ" here. You don't, and never will, get any "experience" unless you do something once. It's not rocket science. It's more like "read the instructions ... and follow them"... plus .... Sonor 3007 drums are not hard to find/replace. And they're relatively inexpensive. If you were talking about vintage Gretsch or high end Brady drums ... more caution need be followed, sure ...​
Jasco won't harm wood. It's designed that way. What it will do, is take paint and glue off a shell. Faster, and with less stress to the wood, than just sanding alone.​
Sure, there's a chance that, once you strip and sand all your shells, you still might have some slight coloration in the wood. And if that's the case, a darker stain ... rather than a lighter stain, will give you a "better" overall end result. Worse case senario, if your not happy with the results ... then you go the the veneer/rewrap as a back-up plan.​
Several years ago, I bought a cheap Ludwig rack tom off eBay. Cheap, because it had a white spray can finish applied "over" the wrap. It was a 13x9. Well, low and behold, when the drum arrived, it had shrunk to a 12x8. Not quite what I needed. Then, I saw, hmmm, "what's this" underneath the rattle can white spray job? Turns out someone had spray painted a Psychedelic Red tom. So, all was not lost. I took all the hardware off the drum, used Jasco to remove the white spray job ... and sold the tom shell alone (I kept all the hardware) for over twice what I paid for the whole drum. I basically doubled my money and got free rims and lugs out of the deal.​
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
I "beg to differ" here. You don't, and never will, get any "experience" unless you do something once. It's not rocket science. It's more like "read the instructions ... and follow them"... plus .... Sonor 3007 drums are not hard to find/replace. And they're relatively inexpensive. If you were talking about vintage Gretsch or high end Brady drums ... more caution need be followed, sure ...​
Jasco won't harm wood. It's designed that way. What it will do, is take paint and glue off a shell. Faster, and with less stress to the wood, than just sanding alone.​
Sure, there's a chance that, once you strip and sand all your shells, you still might have some slight coloration in the wood. And if that's the case, a darker stain ... rather than a lighter stain, will give you a "better" overall end result. Worse case senario, if your not happy with the results ... then you go the the veneer/rewrap as a back-up plan.​
Several years ago, I bought a cheap Ludwig rack tom off eBay. Cheap, because it had a white spray can finish applied "over" the wrap. It was a 13x9. Well, low and behold, when the drum arrived, it had shrunk to a 12x8. Not quite what I needed. Then, I saw, hmmm, "what's this" underneath the rattle can white spray job? Turns out someone had spray painted a Psychedelic Red tom. So, all was not lost. I took all the hardware off the drum, used Jasco to remove the white spray job ... and sold the tom shell alone (I kept all the hardware) for over twice what I paid for the whole drum. I basically doubled my money and got free rims and lugs out of the deal.​
I don't have a problem here with what this guy wants to do.Its just that I have over the years seen way too many"projects"stop dead in their tracks,because some less than talented wood worker got his hands on a belt sander and went to town on a drum shellto strip it down to bare wood,Sometimes the stain will penetrate fairly deep on the outer ply,so then you're sanding away lots of wood to get to clear wood.

The OP posted that he didn't care for the midnight blue fade which is a darker stain,so you would have to start with clear wood to apply an amber stain,which is what he wants to do.I was just trying to save him time,and avert the risk of ruining his drums.I also get your point about so what if he ruins the drums,but he said his budget was tight,so replaceing ruined shells was not really an option.

A few years back I purchased a Pearl DLX 5 piece shell pack for 50 bucks from a kid who tried to use a belt sander to get the stain of his drums.I gave him the money because I felt bad for him.It took a lot of work and some filler,but I sold those drums with full disclosure, for 500.

You and I are from the same generation where we had dads ,uncles,ect that were craftsmen who worked with their hands,and didn't pay anyone else to do their work.So guys like me and you learned from them.So refinishing a drum was no big deal.Not so much these days.People pay other people to do it for them,because thay lack the basic skills and more importantly,basic understanding of a project.They go to home depot,buy materials,screw it up...and then call a guy like me to fix it.

Steve B
 

rmandelbaum

Platinum Member
even with chemicals it is a lot of work, i have found that some drums will come off easy and some will not. In the end you will have to sand anyway. If i had to do it allover again i would grab some 220 on an orbital sander and bypass the chemicals

and yes i have done it before myself ;-)

 

EcnivZeud

Member
So... here are some news, with pictures.
First of all, here is the complete drumkit. Sorry for the ugly picture.

So it's a 3007 kit in Bop sizes, 18x16 BD, 14x14 FT and 12x8TT. I've got currently 2 snares with it: a gretsch new classic 14"x5.5 and a Sonor phonic ferromanganese seamless 14"x5.75". Cymbals are mostly Agop, hardware is low-end Sonor (the cymbals stands) and high-end Tama (under my feet and my butt).
It does look ugly with this mixed colors.
So here's the project: SANDING.
I made a first try below the bass drum, to see if the wood was deep impregnated with the tint:

As you can see, it looks pretty good as soon as the lacquer is removed.
Encouraged by this observation, I decide to sand the small Tom first:

removing the badges:

I had really no trouble to remove them. Nor I had for removing the air vent, it simply came by pushing with a screwdriver on the other side ;-)


The shell, indeed naked:


Let's go!!!!
I started with 100 grit, using a cork wedge:


at this point I used 180:

... and after somewhere btw 1 hour 30 min and 2 hours of work...
Yipeee
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here is the joint
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Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I'm very happy with the result. I need though to be patient, I computed that the remaining surface is 8132 cm^2, against the 2188 cm^2 it took for the 12" tom, I will need around 7 hours at this rythm. Next time I'll try the vibrating sander.
I have not decided yet which tint I will apply. I like the natural result.
 
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tamadrm

Platinum Member
You look like you're doing a great job.Just take your time,and remain patient.Even pros and large drum companys take many man hours to produce a beautiful finish,so don't rush it,and I think you'll be pleased with the results.You want to be proud of your instrument.

I had some initial concerns having seen more that one "project" turn into a nightmare,but you seem to have a handle on things.Good luck..prost.

Steve B
 

EcnivZeud

Member
Here are some news again.
Once I came back from work today I tried the Stripper:

completely useless!!! ;-(
I will need a lot more work then...
I also noticed that there's a clear lacquer between shell itself and the colored lacquer:

You can see it between the natural wood and the color. So it seems that Sonor first applies this transparent protective lacquer on all their shells, and the colored one is then applied in the very last stage. I don't know what kind of varnish they apply they, but it's f¨**in resistant.

Next time I'll try with my vibrating sander.

Cheers
 

EcnivZeud

Member
Now the shells are completely naked. I had hard times removing this lacquer.

The Bass Drum:

The wood hoops:

Next step: the tinted oil. I'll let you know!
 

EcnivZeud

Member
I made some tests on the bottom of the bass drum.
I applied some Hard Oil (similar to Tung Oil) on one end:

and some tinted natural varnish on the other end:

On the very left I used a mahagony tint, then a cherry wood, then some cherry diluted with the hard oil. I'd like to have this kind of sunburst in the end. I will proceed in several steps, sanding in between.

In this first step though, the tint does not penetrate so well since the wood has been sanded to a very very fine grade (320, plus a polishing at 0000 steel wool). Hopefully the next layer will adhere better on that one.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Looks great.That finish is tough to remove.I'm glad you're happy with the results so far.You're almost there...take your time,and you will be rewarded.

Steve B
 

EcnivZeud

Member
I finally ended up putting some oil on all the shell. I will apply other layers, then the color. The tinted varnish didn't look so good directly on the wood.

I will apply the varnish in the end. If I'm patient enough.
 
M

mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Those shells really are of fantastic quality. You're doing a really great job.
 

EcnivZeud

Member
I finally decided not to go further with the tint and to let it natural. I'm very happy with the finish, it's like the vintage finish on the Yamaha maple custom.
It's a bit more amber than on the pictures, and we can really see the depth of the wood grain throughout.
I applied just one layer of oil inside the shells as well to protect them from harsh environments, + it looks better like that:

With the hardware, you can notice it's slightly glossy:


Tomorrow, finally in the basement!!!
 

EcnivZeud

Member
So I released the animal this morning back in its natural environment (the basement).
I meanwhile took the opportunity of having the drums dismantled, to cut one inch at the perimeter of the dampening rings on the bass drum heads. Now the bass drum sounds as I wanted it to be: the sound slightly opens up, but it can be really punchy as well.
And the tom toms sound full of colors.

Overall a very nice sounding kit.

Here are some pictures:

  • to star with, a BEFORE/AFTER ;-)


  • and by the way a nice view over the cymbals --sorry it's blurry but it give some nice effect! (I just acquired a fantastic hi hat from Diril's AD series, very thin and reactive)
Thank you guys for having encouraged me!
 
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