Football Soccer World Cup

Tony_H

Active Member
I like Bellingham at Dortmund. I'm glad to see he got his debut WC goal with a fine cross in. But I won't start giving England props until they do this outside of groups against stronger teams.

They looked impressive in groups during the Euros and sort of fizzled out later in that competition.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
USA vs Wales just ended in a tie. I dont really watch the world cup. Why doesnt it go to a sudden death/overtime so there is no tie?
 

Tony_H

Active Member
USA vs Wales just ended in a tie. I dont really watch the world cup. Why doesnt it go to a sudden death/overtime so there is no tie?
Dave,
The group stages are an accumulation of points.
Win = 3 points
Tie = 1 point
Loss = 0 points

At the end of group stage those points (for the most part) determine which team(s) advance to the next stage. If there is a tie in points, then I think it goes to Goal Differential as the first tie breaker, then a myriad of other stuff after that.

It's the same for football teams in their respective leagues around the world. Regular season point accumulation is what determines who wins the league with similar formats for breaking ties in points at the end of the season.

The only league I am not 100% sure of is MLS here in the states. Because a) It's sorta rubbish football (soccer), and b) they end up going into a playoff system at the end of the season anyway, which is just a way to leech more money out of TV rights and fans.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
Dave,
The group stages are an accumulation of points.
Win = 3 points
Tie = 1 point
Loss = 0 points

At the end of group stage those points (for the most part) determine which team(s) advance to the next stage. If there is a tie in points, then I think it goes to Goal Differential as the first tie breaker, then a myriad of other stuff after that.
Got it. Teams are eliminated by lack of points, not just for a loss. Thank you.
 

Mediocrefunkybeat

Platinum Member
I dont hate the idea at all. I'm just used to win/loss elimination playoffs. A tie during the playoffs/finals here is a no-no. Some games will continue for hours.
See, this is the thing. The idea of a draw is a perfectly acceptable thing to me. Not everybody has to win.

England had a thrilling draw in the Rugby Union the other day. With ten minutes (of 80) left to play, they were dead and buried. Then they came back to draw 25-25. It was absolutely brilliant.

In elimination in football (soccer) there is extra time, then penalties. It's only the group stages where this isn't the case. In season-long leagues then it's the same (no elimination) and it's very rarely decided by goal difference. In the English Premier League there are no playoffs, it's just the team with the most points at the end of the season that wins. Failing that, who has the best goal difference, which last happened in 2011-12 (failing that, goals scored, failing that head-to-head against the two tied teams, then away goals head-to-head). There are playoffs in the domestic Rugby Union and Rugby League and I think the game is poorer for it - surely the team that has been the most consistent throughout should be the champions, rather than a team that finished in fourth place and happened to get a good run at the end?

It's different in US sport I appreciate and that's because you have all of the different regional leagues due to geography and history. And there is no practical way of demonstrating who is the 'best' when you have multiple leagues with different champions other than to pitch them into direct competition. You could do a secondary national league instead of playoffs but that would take a long time to play out and in some sports (I'm looking at you, baseball) because of the way that the series are structured, it wouldn't work.
 

Neal Pert

Well-known Member
The US/Wales game was pretty great, IMO. I'm in England now and ethnically Welsh AND on leave from work for a few months and man, I'll tell you, having all this World Cup stuff on TV and, well, everywhere else is making me a big fan. I'm going to be one of those annoying Americans who likes soccer after this.

I've now watched three games in two days (watched = had the TV on while mostly doing something else) and I have to say, it's awesome. FIFA is evil and I hope the organization is taken out back and put out of its misery. But this whole idea of a world competition on a fast paced game with no commercials and no timeouts and no big truck commercials AND where you don't really have to pay careful attention is pretty awesome, and I'm all in. You don't realize what crap the NFL is until you start watching non-American football.

And yeah, England looked really, really good. Either that or Iran was terrible, but I hope that's not the case.
 

Tony_H

Active Member
See, this is the thing. The idea of a draw is a perfectly acceptable thing to me. Not everybody has to win.

England had a thrilling draw in the Rugby Union the other day. With ten minutes (of 80) left to play, they were dead and buried. Then they came back to draw 25-25. It was absolutely brilliant.

In elimination in football (soccer) there is extra time, then penalties. It's only the group stages where this isn't the case. In season-long leagues then it's the same and it's very rarely decided by goal difference. In the English Premier League there are no playoffs. There are in the domestic Rugby Union and Rugby League and I think the game is poorer for it - surely the team that has been the most consistent throughout should be the champions, rather than a team that finished in fourth place and happened to get a good run at the end?

It's different in US sport I appreciate and that's because you have all of the different regional leagues due to geography and history. And there is no practical way of demonstrating who is the 'best' when you have multiple leagues with different champions other than to pitch them into direct competition. You could do a secondary national league instead of playoffs but that would take a long time to play out and in some sports (I'm looking at you, baseball) because of the way that the series are structured, it wouldn't work.
While I agree with you about the mundane nature of playoffs (7 game series for wildcard, quarterfinals, semifinals, etc...) as it seems to drag a sport out to the point of nausea. Most American sports do not have to commit players to international play during the off season like proper football does, with this years' World Cup as a sad exception.

So athletes in the US get proper down time between seasons to recover, rest, and train. Which means the seasons can be a bit longer as it doesn't interfere with national team activities during those years there are tourneys.
 

Tony_H

Active Member
The US/Wales game was pretty great, IMO. I'm in England now and on leave and man, I'll tell you, having all this World Cup stuff on TV and, well, everywhere else is making me a big fan. I'm going to be one of those annoying Americans who likes soccer after this.

I've now watched three games in two days (watched = had the TV on while mostly doing something else) and I have to say, it's awesome. FIFA is evil and I hope the organization is taken out back and put out of its misery. But this whole idea of a world competition on a fast paced game with no commercials and no timeouts and no big truck commercials AND where you don't really have to pay careful attention is pretty awesome, and I'm all in.

And yeah, England looked really, really good. Either that or Iran was terrible, but I hope that's not the case.
Yay another convert!!!!! LOL
Tomorrow starts the 4 games/day cycle....it's like football heaven!

Just think, Euros in are two years, so you get that same vibe again!!!! ;)
 

Neal Pert

Well-known Member
Yay another convert!!!!! LOL
Tomorrow starts the 4 games/day cycle....it's like football heaven!

Just think, Euros in are two years, so you get that same vibe again!!!! ;)

I plan to turn on the telly (!) when I wake up and to take in as much as I can.

Also, for a whole list of complicated reasons I am now a dedicated Luton Town fan, which I realize is a ridiculous way to enter into football fandom, but who cares? I wear my Luton hat all around Manchester and no one's beaten me up or even yelled at me yet because no one-- and I mean no one-- cares about Luton here.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
See, this is the thing. The idea of a draw is a perfectly acceptable thing to me. Not everybody has to win.
I agree. It's just not what I'm used to. Here its win win win.


It's different in US sport I appreciate and that's because you have all of the different regional leagues due to geography and history. And there is no practical way of demonstrating who is the 'best' when you have multiple leagues with different champions other than to pitch them into direct competition. You could do a secondary national league instead of playoffs but that would take a long time to play out and in some sports (I'm looking at you, baseball) because of the way that the series are structured, it wouldn't work.
Our country is too big to not have divisions really. If New York had to play California every other week that would get ridiculous. Much easier to play Massachusetts which is easily drivable in a day.
 

Juniper

Gold Member
I’ll be watching as much as I possibly can. Huge football fan.

Going for Argentina or Brazil as winners, currently.

Roll on 10am (GMT) tomorrow for the next match.
 

Juniper

Gold Member
I’ll be watching as much as I possibly can. Huge football fan.

Going for Argentina or Brazil as winners, currently.

Roll on 10am (GMT) tomorrow for the next match.

Very surprised at Argentina. First game nerves with a lot of expectations getting to them, maybe.

Distinctive lack of fight and lack of quality in their final ball.

Regardless, an absolutely fantastic team performance by Saudi Arabia though. Great to see! What a moment for them.

Absolutely brilliant.
 
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