Fred D
Pioneer Member
Here's a video with Jeff Pocaro discussing lope and feel. Starts around the four minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7p-aFv40kM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7p-aFv40kM&feature=related
Here's a video with Jeff Pocaro discussing lope and feel. Starts around the four minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7p-aFv40kM&feature=related
Gosh,
I urge you to watch that series of videos if you haven't already. Also, what do Gadd, Gordon, Porcaro, and other masters have in common? Steely Dan! Talk about an awesome band that gets very little credit.
- "feel" is a nebulous, mushy concept. It can't be argued about or discussed in a meaningful, rational manner.
From the get go, GTBT, Bonham was playing those sixteenth note triplets on the bass drum. That requires technique and quite a bit of it. And he always had good hands. His placement of notes as well. You have to be able to tell the foot and hands exactly where you want them to place the note, and that is a technical question. Once you develop that technique, it becomes part of your feel.
I listened to Presence the other day because Achilles Last Stand was being discussed on the board. I noticed that Bonham's playing was quite different than on the earlier albums. His drumming evolved. it did become a little more refined. At that point, they were just a studio band so that had to have a profound affect on his drumming.
The over drawn rigors of having to play with a click is a different question. That is a technical ability that one can develop. I think that once you develop the discipline of being able to play with a click, it will help your groove. I got that from Purdie. Again, another great groover with great technique.
I would say that feel is like technique in the sense of once you have it, what are you going to do with it. One of my favorite bands was Stuff, and now that their stuff is out on CD, I have repurchased the recordings, One of the great feel bands like Booker T and the MGs. But to tell you the truth, as much as I love it, I tire of it because at points it just doesn't go anywhere. Why can't you have both?
When we talk about technique it is also necessary to know what technique is and what it does. I have heard musicians many times say things like "I love Jaco because he is not a technical player." Jaco had wonderful technique: wonderful tone and wonderful nuance and great expression. That is all anyone can hope that technique will give them..
I also wanted to add that the question becomes so much more interesting when it is phrased as "feel and technique" and one is not pitted against the other.
From the get go, GTBT, Bonham was playing those sixteenth note triplets on the bass drum. That requires technique and quite a bit of it. And he always had good hands. His placement of notes as well. You have to be able to tell the foot and hands exactly where you want them to place the note, and that is a technical question. Once you develop that technique, it becomes part of your feel.
I tend to think that note placement is all about feel and not about technique. Playing on top, ahead, or behind, is feel not technique..
You can count the great drummers who were technique challenged on one hand.you can have "feel" without any technique..no doubt about this..lots of great drummers did so..
You also can have technique without feel, no doubt about this..lots of drummers do so posting something on Youtube...
Feel counts, technique is just a lousy tool....
----a drummer cannot groove if the band does not groove----
This argument is about having status without doing the work. Period.
I tend to think that note placement is all about feel and not about technique. Playing on top, ahead, or behind, is feel not technique.
That's the point exactly. I did some minor studio work many years ago, and I found the limitations of my technique quite a struggle. When you listen back it is not what you thought it would be because the mic picks up everything, the nuance or lack there of. Never mind the ability to do what you want to do. It's frustrating to be able to hear it but not be able to execute with the same ease and musicality that is going on in your head. Although I had studied a lot and had what I considered good technique, I didn't have the technical training necessary to really excel in the studio. It was a bad experience for me as a young drummer. Had I been more prepared, my story may have been a lot more positive.
Technique allows you to relax and that is a big part of it. I remember when I first played Home at Last with a band. There was those triplet figures on the bass drum. There was a certain place where I wanted those bass drum notes to land, and it was not easy getting that feel, getting them to land where I wanted them to land. It is splitting hairs because it is either in the pocket of it's not and the difference is minuscule. But when I got it to fit in, the pocket was so much deeper; it took it to a new level of expression.
You can talk about Rosanna as well, and the great feel; but the technique that it takes to drive the feel out of the groove is staggering, and Jeff Porcaro was one dude who certainly had it.
That's the point exactly. I did some minor studio work many years ago, and I found the limitations of my technique quite a struggle. When you listen back it is not what you thought it would be because the mic picks up everything, the nuance or lack there of. Never mind the ability to do what you want to do. It's frustrating to be able to hear it but not be able to execute with the same ease and musicality that is going on in your head. Although I had studied a lot and had what I considered good technique, I didn't have the technical training necessary to really excel in the studio. It was a bad experience for me as a young drummer. Had I been more prepared, my story may have been a lot more positive.