Fast Shuffle Technique

Boomka

Platinum Member
My thought exactly.

My view is this: whether we call it "Moeller" or "push pull" or "up-down" or "Super Bad Meaning Good Technique" or whatever, the point is that in order to get this stuff happening we're often using a motion - knowingly or not - that distributes the load of the two strokes between different muscle groups. In some fashion or another we're creating a pendulum like effect with the stick.

There are a few roads to Rome.
 

Boomka

Platinum Member
Haha.. not quite. I'm not a Moeller expert but there's no big whipping motion or up-down-tap etc.
There needn't be either of those things to be Moeller.

And you do understand that Chapin's whole thing - including "pull outs" - was Moeller, right?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The hi-hat part is really fast. Jeff just plays it so smooth and relaxed it doesn't sound that way. It's like a regular shuffle at 168bpm. That's pretty quick. I'm working on letting that pick-up note of the triplet drop and then accent the 8th notes with my wrist. Sort of getting the feel of playing an inverted double stroke over and over. It's coming along but it's going to be a while.
It is near the upper limits for a shuffle. One thing you might not be thinking of is he is likely resting his shuffling hand for just the backbeat hit. That combined with the ghosts make it sound seamless at that tempo. So all you have to go is from backbeat to backbeat with the shuffle and you get a little pause while you nail the backbeat.
 

Dignan

Silver Member
In one of those old videos of Porcaro clinics on Youtube he actually admits that playing the shuffle at that speed was difficult for him. Maybe he's just being modest but he does say something to that effect.

He also said that in the final recording for Rosanna he actually dropped a stick and if you listen closely you can actually hear the hi-hat pattern drop out for about a beat as he picks up a new stick. It happens right after one of the choruses. He discusses this in the video as well. Pretty interesting that they would just keep that take. I guess since it doesn't sound like a mistake but rather an artistic choice they didn't feel the need to fix it.
 

evogel

Senior Member
Watching him do it in person the 80's and boy, it looked pretty freakin' effortless!
It looked like he could go on ALL day long. :)

He mentioned his father's "snap up" exercise helped him with this motion.

He was SERIOUSLY modest.



In one of those old videos of Porcaro clinics on Youtube he actually admits that playing the shuffle at that speed was difficult for him. Maybe he's just being modest but he does say something to that effect.

He also said that in the final recording for Rosanna he actually dropped a stick and if you listen closely you can actually hear the hi-hat pattern drop out for about a beat as he picks up a new stick. It happens right after one of the choruses. He discusses this in the video as well. Pretty interesting that they would just keep that take. I guess since it doesn't sound like a mistake but rather an artistic choice they didn't feel the need to fix it.
 

moxman

Silver Member
There needn't be either of those things to be Moeller.

And you do understand that Chapin's whole thing - including "pull outs" - was Moeller, right?
Really? In that case I use Moeller all the time but didn't know it! I stand corrected - I must be an expert on Moeller then! LoL..

All the demos I've ever seen on Moeller usually show the whipping motion usually applied to triplets. I'll have to look into this and see what other Moeller type strokes I use.. I suppose I use a combination of Gladstone bounce technique with some Moeller thrown in for good measure.
 

Dignan

Silver Member
In one of those old videos of Porcaro clinics on Youtube he actually admits that playing the shuffle at that speed was difficult for him. Maybe he's just being modest but he does say something to that effect.

He also said that in the final recording for Rosanna he actually dropped a stick and if you listen closely you can actually hear the hi-hat pattern drop out for about a beat as he picks up a new stick. It happens right after one of the choruses. He discusses this in the video as well. Pretty interesting that they would just keep that take. I guess since it doesn't sound like a mistake but rather an artistic choice they didn't feel the need to fix it.
CORRECTION: The dropped stick can actually be heard in "I Keep Forgettin," not Rosanna. Got my fast paced hi-hat Porcaro grooves mixed up.
 

cornelius

Silver Member
Really? In that case I use Moeller all the time but didn't know it! I stand corrected - I must be an expert on Moeller then! LoL..

All the demos I've ever seen on Moeller usually show the whipping motion usually applied to triplets. I'll have to look into this and see what other Moeller type strokes I use.. I suppose I use a combination of Gladstone bounce technique with some Moeller thrown in for good measure.
That’s the beauty of Moeller - it’s a natural motion so most players don’t even know when they’re doing it. In the end it’s about getting the right sound - but having some labels helps define what we’re talking about, and to fully understand how we’re doing things...
 
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