Ethics..?

paistemage

Senior Member
I want opinions.

So there is this open mic/blues jam at a local bar. I started going to it in the last month and a half, since I found out about it.

It goes without saying what my initial viewpoint would be, after i explaint he details, I am just unsure what route to take for possible future situations, that happen similarly from last night.

Here is the skinny....

So, the drummer , WHO GETS PAID, for being the house drummer, wasn't feeling good last night. He didn't play the first set, he played a little during the second set. He didn't play the third set.

Forget durations of sets etc. All in all the entire gig was about 3 hours. He played for MAYBE 15 minutes. Literally four songs. Maybe twenty minutes. He complained, and looked very tired.Seeing as how my future is in medicine, I didn't tried tog et to the bottom of it, I just wanted to play.

So I WAS the house drummer for all the guest guitar players, and anyone who came up. Along with normal bass player.

I was talking to a regular, and even the guy who MC's the event. They kept jokingly saying " He's getting paid, your playing his gig!" Some other remarks " Your playing because you love playing, but your putting money in his pocket."

Seeing as how this has only happened ONCE, I don't feel I should run tot he MC of the gig, the leader essentially, and say hey give me the greenbacks.

This guy has been late, for general reasons, has fogotten bas drum pedals (therefore forcing us both to play a set with no bass drum), doesn't seem overly enthusiastic about the gig. People tend to comment how much more they like my playing. How my passion is there, I have the proverbial fire, this guy may have lost.


So my question would be, a multi question:

In your opinion should I:

a) ask him for some kind of cut for covering his behind?

b) consider it a one time gesture of respect for a downed (sick) musician?

c) talk to the band leader, and say , "hey, I'll take the gig.."

d) see if it happens again , then proceed with any of above?
 

Bonzo

Pioneer Member
I don't think asking for money after the fact is appropriate. It was an opportunity for you to gain some exposure and you succeeded in that. And that should have been your focus anyway, the opportunity to showcase your talents in an unusual situation. I'd continue to show up there if you truly enjoyed it, and monitor the situation. Keep rubbing elbows with the MC, club owner etc. Show them that you're available and willing.
 

aydee

Platinum Member
...

a) ask him for some kind of cut for covering his behind?

Asking cant hurt, but dont expect it.

b) consider it a one time gesture of respect for a downed (sick) musician?

Sure, but advertising your skills as a drummer & more importantly a nice guy, is good networking. Even if you did it more than once.

c) talk to the band leader, and say , "hey, I'll take the gig.."

If you want it that bad, yes.

d) see if it happens again , then proceed with any of above?

Make it happen again... and see what happens ; )

...
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
You don't have the right to ask for any money from anyone, don't do that. You could ruin any chance you have of getting this gig.
What you did doesn't qualify as a nice gesture, you benefited more IMO by getting the exposure. Don't think of it as a one time thing. If this keeps happening, you may get the gig.
Don't talk to the band leader and say "I'll take the gig" unless it was offered. Don't be presumptuous! You can however inform them that if they ever need a sub, you hope they will consider you, here's the number.

It sounds like you have a shot at this gig if the existing drummer continues to perform under your level.
 

Garvin

Pioneer Member
This guy sounds like he's looking for a way out. You could probably slide into his spot, but be warned. You will probably be the one slacking after a couple months. Maybe you could rotate or something.

You can never ask for money after the fact. You are negotiating from a really week position there.

Definitely ask the bandleader what the deal is. Ask if they are looking for a replacement or sub.

"Regular" gigs can suck the life out of you. I hate playing the same place every week. I do that with two bands over about 8 weeks of winter. It really starts to feel more like work and less like music. That said, I show up on time and play the gig because I'm getting paid.
 

cp84

Senior Member
You should not ask for money. You went to the jam night and you got to play. That is why you went right?

If they offer you the gig then take it. Otherwise just take the night for what it is. A jam night. You turn up and you play. If you feel you're doing his job then just get up and then get off after a couple of songs. Or just dont go.

He doesn't owe you money. He is bringing his kit and it is his gig. Do not ask for the gig. If they want you for the gig then they will ask you. It is bad news to try and poach somone elses gig.
 

paistemage

Senior Member
I dont expect money, and feel asking for it would be in bad taste.

The BARTENDER pushes for me to play. Last week she asked me "do you want me to get you to play, and put a word in with jeff?" Jeff is the MC/orchestrator of event.
I regularly sit in, for a whole set, or some songs. Last night though I pretty played his gig, and he sat in on the gig, so to speak.

I am keeping myself visible, informed the mc if at anypoint he needs me to bring equipment, cover for the drummer or whatever, to just let me know.

That was before last night.

It wouldn't pay well, whichisn't the point of any of this.

I just want to be ethical and not poach his gig.
 

paistemage

Senior Member
I am not really saying he OWES me money.

My standpoint is I got to play.


If he can't hack the gig, I would be glad to take it. Money is a bonus, not a requirement with me.

So it is NOT about the money.

He isn't really enthusiastic about the gig either. Seems like he could care less.
 

dairyairman

Platinum Member
does that jeff guy have your phone number? it sounds like you've already made it pretty clear that you'd be more than happy to sub for their regular drummer at any time. that's probably about as far as you can go without ruffling feathers. i know if another drummer came up to our singer and offered to replace me i'd be pissed.
 

paistemage

Senior Member
Also all I told the bandleader is this:

" hey I could give you my number, if "jeff," the current drummer, if he is running late or needs me to bring a pedal or any part of a set, I could give you my number, as a back up."

I informed him I am right in the area, and that I would do whatever to make sure we have a working set.

I generally believe in the hang back and see what develops, and not asking for money approach.Just be visible and ready.

Dairy= I 100 percent agree.

He told me last week to give him my number, just in case.I forgot to give it to him. I was tired due to newborn.Last night i just kept reitterating how much fun I had, since that is paramount.

I also helped bring in the PA equipment, and set the drum set up, and put it left handed, for the regular guy, even though I am a right handed drummer. I informed the bandleader that I told jeff that it is set up for him, since he wasnt feeling good, and that I informed him we were ready to go. I also informed him that jeff told me to go ahead and play and "kill it, have fun." Also that jeff the normal drummer said he didnt feel like playing.

This isn't the first time, from reports from a singer who jams, and from a bass player.

I love canolis, gotta have pine nuts though...Good after fresh sausage made that day, love fennell...
 
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dairyairman

Platinum Member
that sounds great! i'd hire you myself if i weren't already a drummer. based on what you're saying i'd actually be surprised if the band leader doesn't call you at some point in the future.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
You should not ask for money. You went to the jam night and you got to play. That is why you went right?

If they offer you the gig then take it. Otherwise just take the night for what it is. A jam night. You turn up and you play. If you feel you're doing his job then just get up and then get off after a couple of songs. Or just dont go.

He doesn't owe you money. He is bringing his kit and it is his gig. Do not ask for the gig. If they want you for the gig then they will ask you. It is bad news to try and poach somone elses gig.
This.

It was his gig, his gear. You VOLUNTEERED your services.



But I'd say keep going back to the open jam portion of the show. You never know what will happen in the future. You may get asked to replace the regular guy, or if not, at least you'll make a name so that when someone asks the leader if they know of a drummer, he'll say "yeah, there is this guy who bailed me out a few times, I'll give you his number..."
 

Spreggy

Silver Member
Next time I'm at an open jam, I'm charging $5/tune. $10 if it's country. $50 for Freebird.

j/k of course.

To me, playing 20 songs at an open jam is a win for me, considering I go there to 1. meet players, 2. show that I can play the things, 3. show that I'm easy to work with, and 4. taste the local drafts.
 

paistemage

Senior Member
drumeatdrum= I get your commenting on the money,and saying how you feel about that, but it's not about getting paid to do it. For me it's about the fact he is detrimental to the group.He never shows up on time, he isn't inspired.

I was basically asking the opinion , even though I did include money in the equation, more in terms of the next step.

I only included money as a possible variable, since OTHERS and NOT MYSELF, felt I should have been paid.

I felt I got to play all night, that is better than money.

Thanks for the replies guys.
 

baz

Silver Member
...Paistemage.

Your being there willing to pitch in, and hump gear for them might be something that they start taking for granted. Maybe you should skip a few nights and let their drummer sort out his own mess. Maybe then they might appreciate your contribution.

Also, congrats on the new born, and good luck with your studies.

Barry

Barry
 

last man to bat

Senior Member
I can only say what I would do in this situation

a) ask him for some kind of cut for covering his behind?

I wouldn't

b) consider it a one time gesture of respect for a downed (sick) musician?

I would consider it a fun night, not even that I was doing anyone a favour, just that I had a good time.

c) talk to the band leader, and say , "hey, I'll take the gig.."

For me this would be uncomfortable to do. I would not see it as my position to say anything. If the band leader wants rid of the existing drummer then that is not my business, he would know I was around and would ask if he wanted me

d) see if it happens again , then proceed with any of above?

I wouldn't see it as a possible, I would just see it as a jam night that I go to to enjoy.


It is of course possible that the house drummer wants out, but that is up to him to sort out and I would not see it as my responsibility for how the night goes. At the moment it is his gig and I would be pissed if someone tried to poach a gig from me no matter what they thought my situation is.

But this is just me and I know others might feel differently about things. The important thing for me is to not lose sight as to why it is that I love drumming.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I'll echo the concensus. If I showed up expecting to be paid and there was no money, there'd be hell to pay. If I showed up at an open mic night expecting nothing more than to play a few songs and I managed to play the whole set, I'd consider it a blast.

Nup, for mine money is negotiated before hand. If placed in these same circumstances I wouldn't have my hand out at the end of the night. I'd be thankful for the jam and be on my way.

And just further to this one:

"but it's not about getting paid to do it. For me it's about the fact he is detrimental to the group.He never shows up on time, he isn't inspired."

It's a valid point, but it isn't your cross to carry. That's for them to decide. That said, if they do decide to act on it then at least there is one name who is front and centre ready to replace him. :)
 
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